From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#15234: 24.3.50; Make C-x u repeatable Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 09:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <87k3j0bull.fsf@gmail.com> <87y57e8wxv.fsf@gmail.com> <4adaf1e3-320f-4abb-b1ce-3f0918f00eb2@default> <007fd28d-d1ee-432b-a9e0-6adef59c0317@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1378225225 1260 80.91.229.3 (3 Sep 2013 16:20:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:20:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 15234@debbugs.gnu.org, Jambunathan K To: Dani Moncayo Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 03 18:20:25 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VGtL6-0003A7-Pv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 18:20:25 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47394 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VGtL6-0005LH-AY for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:20:24 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55908) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VGtKv-0005Ij-NK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:20:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VGtKl-0002aU-0m for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:20:13 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:59206) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VGtKk-0002ZW-Th for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:20:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VGtKj-0002BI-Qn for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:20:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2013 16:20:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 15234 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 15234-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B15234.13782251778326 (code B ref 15234); Tue, 03 Sep 2013 16:20:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 15234) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Sep 2013 16:19:37 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39266 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VGtKJ-0002AA-Fq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:19:36 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:17033) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VGtKH-00029r-As for 15234@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 03 Sep 2013 12:19:34 -0400 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r83GJQxM001687 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:19:27 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r83GJP02005426 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:19:26 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt119.oracle.com (abhmt119.oracle.com [141.146.116.71]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r83GJP0n005411; Tue, 3 Sep 2013 16:19:25 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8 (707110) [OL 12.0.6680.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:77949 Archived-At: > > there are other, simple ways of exiting `undo' so > > `u' will then insert (` ', `x DEL', whatever). >=20 > Yes, there would be other ways of exiting undo, but I definitely > prefer not having to "exit" `undo'. >=20 > In general, I think that modal operations should be avoided as much as > possible, because IMO, they make the user interface more complex > (uglier, worse...). Yes and no. Isearch has been greatly *improved* by binding keys in `isearch-mode-map' to do particular things. Some, especially RMS, have argued against this, saying that it makes Isearch too modal - exactly your argument. But you have to "exit" Isearch anyway - it *is* modal, in a sense. It's just that there were originally a zillion ways to exit and now there are a zillion minus a few. Wrt `undo': When you repeat `undo' and you go past where you wanted, what do you do? You "exit" `undo' repeating by hitting some key, e.g. `x', and then you start it again so it undoes that key and then undoes its previous undoing. IOW, you already "exit" undo repetition, whether you think of it that way or not. No, of course it's not really a mode. One is not locked into repetition. It's only modal in the sense that hitting an undo key again continues undoing. And the only thing new here is that `u' becomes an undo key (when it follows `C-x u'), just like `C-/'. You could argue that any function that takes control over input (what you type next) is modal to some extent. `y-or-n-p' is modal in this sense. Likewise `query-replace' and lots of other useful commands. And yes, as you point out, they can make the UI more complex. It's a tradeoff. Different users will feel differently about this feature, just as some feel differently about the keys that have been added to Isearch. Some will welcome the change as an improvement. Some will dislike it, e.g., because it changes their habits. Out of curiosity, do you actually use `C-x u' today? Not that you need to, to have an opinion about this. (I don't use it.) How do you feel about having a separate command for this repeatable undo?