From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#19925: 25.0.50; mouseover menu items takes up to 30sec to show the proper tooltip or message Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 20:29:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <<1d10f417-acb4-4b32-8bc3-fe949388330d@default>> <<837fv98faf.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1424665829 3282 80.91.229.3 (23 Feb 2015 04:30:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:30:29 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 19925@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 23 05:30:15 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YPket-0003WT-Ah for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 05:30:15 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42016 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YPkes-0001Lz-30 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:30:14 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42993) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YPken-0001Lq-VI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:30:10 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YPkei-0002CH-Vr for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:30:09 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:59737) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YPkei-0002Ay-TY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:30:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YPkeh-0001dR-QJ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:30:04 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:30:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 19925 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 19925-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B19925.14246657596201 (code B ref 19925); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:30:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 19925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 23 Feb 2015 04:29:19 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50977 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YPkdy-0001bx-R4 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:29:19 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:19920) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1YPkdw-0001bo-LH for 19925@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 22 Feb 2015 23:29:17 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t1N4TF5M023295 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:29:15 GMT Original-Received: from userz7022.oracle.com (userz7022.oracle.com [156.151.31.86]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t1N4TEVQ025256 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:29:14 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by userz7022.oracle.com (8.14.5+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id t1N4TDiR028741; Mon, 23 Feb 2015 04:29:13 GMT In-Reply-To: <<837fv98faf.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:99720 Archived-At: > AFAICS, that's because the cursor stops blinking after 10 blinks. > Make it blink forever, and the problem is gone. >=20 > There's nothing that can be done here to fix this. Tooltips for w32 > menu items need input events to pop up, because when a menu is shown, > Emacs doesn't have control, and waits for the menu to pop down. Excellent reply; thank you, Eli. Changing `blink-cursor-blinks' to 0 does indeed make both tooltip help and echo-area help work properly for mouseover. (I assume that what you say about the limitation of w32 tooltips for menu items applies also to echo-area help for menu items.) I would suggest that: 1. Users will expect help on menu items to just work, out of the box. 2. They, like I, will not understand the default behavior. And as I mentioned earlier, they will get into trouble by relying on the incorrect information that is displayed (unsynced pointer position and displayed help). They could even get into big trouble - loss of data, by picking the wrong menu item. 3. The connection between option `blink-cursor-blink' and this unfortunate default behavior is, to put it mildly, difficult to discover. Even if I look at the doc for `blink-cursor-blink' I would have a hard time making the connection. And of course a user will not land on the `blink-cursor-blink' doc by accident in this context. I would suggest the following, as a partial remedy: 1. This defect (yes, it is a defect, even if it is the result of using a particular OS or window manager) should be documented fairly prominently, where tooltip and echo-area help is presented. That means not only the manual but also the doc string of `tooltip-mode' - not because this has anything to do with that mode (the problem exists whether the mode is on or off), but only because a user looking for help regarding this behavior might look for things having to do with tooltips. 2. Make the default value of `blink-cursor-blinks' be 0, at least on the platforms that present this defect. Would it perhaps be possible also to change the value to 0 as soon as a user mouseovers a menu? And then change it back to its previous value when the menu is no longer displayed? Could Emacs detect those events? IOW, before "waiting for the menu to pop down", couldn't it set the value to 0, and then when it pops down set it back to its previous value? If that's not feasible then I do hope that #1 and #2 will be done. The current situation is not friendly to users, and it makes Emacs look like it is quite handicapped and unhelpful.