Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Hongyi Zhao]

I noticed that the following statement from the AUTHORS file of Emacs:

;;;
Richard M. Stallman: wrote [The original GNU Emacs and numerous files]
  easymenu.el image-mode.el menu-bar.el paren.el
and co-wrote cc-align.el cc-cmds.el cc-defs.el cc-engine.el cc-langs.el
  cc-menus.el cc-mode.el cc-styles.el cc-vars.el font-lock.el
and changed files.el keyboard.c simple.el xterm.c xdisp.c rmail.el
  fileio.c process.c sysdep.c buffer.c xfns.c window.c subr.el
  configure.ac startup.el sendmail.el emacs.c Makefile.in editfns.c
  info.el dired.el and 1338 other files
;;;

But I've never seen him on Emacs relevant mailing lists. Does Richard
M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

Regards
-- 
Assoc. Prof. Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
Theory and Simulation of Materials
Hebei Vocational University of Technology and Engineering
No. 473, Quannan West Street, Xindu District, Xingtai, Hebei province

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Hongyi Zhao wrote:

> But I've never seen him on Emacs relevant mailing lists.
> Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the
> codes of Emacs now?

He is on gmane.emacs.devel so at the very least he is
programming Emacs programmers.

I know he did maintain Emacs for many years after writing
it...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Jean-Christophe Helary]

> On Aug 15, 2021, at 15:46, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> But I've never seen him on Emacs relevant mailing lists. Does Richard
> M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

He just sent a message on emacs-devel a few hours ago. Maybe you're not on the right lists.

-- 
Jean-Christophe Helary @brandelune
https://mac4translators.blogspot.com
https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 3:02 PM Jean-Christophe Helary
<lists@traduction-libre.org> wrote:
>
> > On Aug 15, 2021, at 15:46, Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > But I've never seen him on Emacs relevant mailing lists. Does Richard
> > M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?
>
> He just sent a message on emacs-devel a few hours ago. Maybe you're not on the right lists.

Really. I checked the emacs-devel list, and it turns out he was pretty
active there.

Regards, Hongyi

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Hongyi Zhao wrote:

> Really. I checked the emacs-devel list, and it turns out he
> was pretty active there.

But anyway, to quote some ancient pugilistic wisdom,
once a champ, always a champ.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Hongyi Zhao wrote:

>>> But I've never seen him on Emacs relevant mailing lists.
>>> Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the
>>> codes of Emacs now?
>>
>> He just sent a message on emacs-devel a few hours ago.
>> Maybe you're not on the right lists.
>
> Really. I checked the emacs-devel list, and it turns out he
> was pretty active there.

I met RMS 2015 in Belgium. He was selling GNU pins for 2 EUR
a piece, it had a cartoonish gnu head on it and the letters
"gnu.org".

I asked, if you buy one, are you then a true follower?
He replied, "it is a way of helping".

It was like if Chairman Mao would sell Che Guevara T-shirts at
a 1st-of-May rally! Maybe for arms to the People's Liberation
Army. But I liked it.

Obviously I bought one, I had it for many years in my
bookshelf, it always made me smile. But it was lost when part
of my conapt was disintegrated.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2021 14:46:56 +0800
> 
> I noticed that the following statement from the AUTHORS file of Emacs:
> 
> ;;;
> Richard M. Stallman: wrote [The original GNU Emacs and numerous files]
>   easymenu.el image-mode.el menu-bar.el paren.el
> and co-wrote cc-align.el cc-cmds.el cc-defs.el cc-engine.el cc-langs.el
>   cc-menus.el cc-mode.el cc-styles.el cc-vars.el font-lock.el
> and changed files.el keyboard.c simple.el xterm.c xdisp.c rmail.el
>   fileio.c process.c sysdep.c buffer.c xfns.c window.c subr.el
>   configure.ac startup.el sendmail.el emacs.c Makefile.in editfns.c
>   info.el dired.el and 1338 other files
> ;;;
> 
> But I've never seen him on Emacs relevant mailing lists. Does Richard
> M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

The AUTHORS file lists contributions to Emacs since the very
beginning, more than 35 years ago.  Any contributions since then till
this day are reflected in AUTHORS, and what the contributors do lately
doesn't matter at all.  How far back did you go in your study of RMS's
contributions?

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 3:18 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> [...]
> The AUTHORS file lists contributions to Emacs since the very
> beginning, more than 35 years ago.  Any contributions since then till
> this day are reflected in AUTHORS, and what the contributors do lately
> doesn't matter at all.  How far back did you go in your study of RMS's
> contributions?

I got some clues based on some digging into the Emacs git repo, as shown below:

$ git log -1
commit 3572613550f5d1d0b3392dbc809b32f3989e2981 (HEAD -> master,
origin/master, origin/HEAD)
Author: Wolfgang Scherer <wolfgang.scherer@gmx.de>
Date:   Sun Aug 15 04:02:23 2021 +0300

$ git log | grep -m1 -A1 -B1 -i 'Richard M. Stallman'
commit dca743f0941909a80e3f28c023977120b6203e20
Author: Richard M. Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Date:   Sun Mar 22 03:51:55 2015 -0400

The most recent commit by RMS was done in 2015.

Best, Hongyi

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 3:35 PM Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 3:18 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > [...]
> > The AUTHORS file lists contributions to Emacs since the very
> > beginning, more than 35 years ago.  Any contributions since then till
> > this day are reflected in AUTHORS, and what the contributors do lately
> > doesn't matter at all.  How far back did you go in your study of RMS's
> > contributions?
>
> I got some clues based on some digging into the Emacs git repo, as shown below:
>
> $ git log -1
> commit 3572613550f5d1d0b3392dbc809b32f3989e2981 (HEAD -> master,
> origin/master, origin/HEAD)
> Author: Wolfgang Scherer <wolfgang.scherer@gmx.de>
> Date:   Sun Aug 15 04:02:23 2021 +0300
>
> $ git log | grep -m1 -A1 -B1 -i 'Richard M. Stallman'
> commit dca743f0941909a80e3f28c023977120b6203e20
> Author: Richard M. Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date:   Sun Mar 22 03:51:55 2015 -0400
>
> The most recent commit by RMS was done in 2015.

And some more statistics:

The total commit till now:

$ git log |grep ^commit | wc -l
149419

The commits of RMS till now:
$ git log|grep  -A1 -B1 -i 'Richard M. Stallman' | grep Author: | wc -l
20575

It's unquestionable that RMS is the initiator and one of the most
important contributors of Emacs.

Best, Hongyi

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com>
> Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2021 15:35:37 +0800
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> 
> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 3:18 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > [...]
> > The AUTHORS file lists contributions to Emacs since the very
> > beginning, more than 35 years ago.  Any contributions since then till
> > this day are reflected in AUTHORS, and what the contributors do lately
> > doesn't matter at all.  How far back did you go in your study of RMS's
> > contributions?
> 
> I got some clues based on some digging into the Emacs git repo, as shown below:
> 
> $ git log -1
> commit 3572613550f5d1d0b3392dbc809b32f3989e2981 (HEAD -> master,
> origin/master, origin/HEAD)
> Author: Wolfgang Scherer <wolfgang.scherer@gmx.de>
> Date:   Sun Aug 15 04:02:23 2021 +0300
> 
> $ git log | grep -m1 -A1 -B1 -i 'Richard M. Stallman'
> commit dca743f0941909a80e3f28c023977120b6203e20
> Author: Richard M. Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date:   Sun Mar 22 03:51:55 2015 -0400
> 
> The most recent commit by RMS was done in 2015.

There's no "statute of limitations" on contributions to Emacs.  Once
you are on the AUTHORS list, you stay there forever.  As it should be,
IMNSHO.

As for RMS's contributions to Emacs in general, try

  $ git shortlog -s -n

and you will see that Richard's contributions still stand head and
shoulders above everyone else, even though he is no longer a very
active committer.

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 4:09 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> [...]
> As for RMS's contributions to Emacs in general, try
>
>   $ git shortlog -s -n
>
> and you will see that Richard's contributions still stand head and
> shoulders above everyone else, even though he is no longer a very
> active committer.

Exactly, as shown below:

$ git shortlog -sn|head
 20575    Richard M. Stallman
 12314    Glenn Morris
 10673    Eli Zaretskii
  8959    Stefan Monnier
  6641    Kenichi Handa
  6485    Paul Eggert
  6012    Chong Yidong
  4803    Gerd Moellmann
  4532    Juanma Barranquero
  3767    Karl Heuer

Hongyi

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Stephen Berman]

On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 15:35:37 +0800 Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 3:18 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> [...]
>> The AUTHORS file lists contributions to Emacs since the very
>> beginning, more than 35 years ago.  Any contributions since then till
>> this day are reflected in AUTHORS, and what the contributors do lately
>> doesn't matter at all.  How far back did you go in your study of RMS's
>> contributions?
>
> I got some clues based on some digging into the Emacs git repo, as shown below:
>
> $ git log -1
> commit 3572613550f5d1d0b3392dbc809b32f3989e2981 (HEAD -> master,
> origin/master, origin/HEAD)
> Author: Wolfgang Scherer <wolfgang.scherer@gmx.de>
> Date:   Sun Aug 15 04:02:23 2021 +0300
>
> $ git log | grep -m1 -A1 -B1 -i 'Richard M. Stallman'
> commit dca743f0941909a80e3f28c023977120b6203e20
> Author: Richard M. Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date:   Sun Mar 22 03:51:55 2015 -0400
>
> The most recent commit by RMS was done in 2015.

'Richard M. Stallman' is too specific:

$ git log | grep -m4 -A1 -B1 -i 'Stallman'
Merge: 67722ab62f 5784b421ee
Author:     Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
AuthorDate: Tue May 11 23:08:42 2021 -0400
Commit:     Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
CommitDate: Tue May 11 23:08:42 2021 -0400
--
commit 67722ab62f9cd0ce81efd628d5a87b8ef350aacc
Author:     Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
AuthorDate: Tue May 11 22:59:12 2021 -0400
Commit:     Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
CommitDate: Tue May 11 22:59:12 2021 -0400

Steve Berman

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 4:29 PM Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net> wrote:
> [...]
> 'Richard M. Stallman' is too specific:

Thank you for pointing this out.

> $ git log | grep -m4 -A1 -B1 -i 'Stallman'
> Merge: 67722ab62f 5784b421ee
> Author:     Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> AuthorDate: Tue May 11 23:08:42 2021 -0400
> Commit:     Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> CommitDate: Tue May 11 23:08:42 2021 -0400
> --
> commit 67722ab62f9cd0ce81efd628d5a87b8ef350aacc
> Author:     Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> AuthorDate: Tue May 11 22:59:12 2021 -0400
> Commit:     Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> CommitDate: Tue May 11 22:59:12 2021 -0400

Or use the following method:

$ git log | grep -m4 -A1 -B1 '<rms@gnu.org>'
Merge: 67722ab62f 5784b421ee
Author: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Date:   Tue May 11 23:08:42 2021 -0400
--
commit 67722ab62f9cd0ce81efd628d5a87b8ef350aacc
Author: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Date:   Tue May 11 22:59:12 2021 -0400
--
commit ff6727dbbdeb44322439872fe0239bdca3ef6bce
Author: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Date:   Tue May 11 22:56:54 2021 -0400
--
commit ec8aff1608494c22d5925b84f25ec0f2efc800e1
Author: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Date:   Tue May 11 22:41:17 2021 -0400


Hongyi

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Teemu Likonen]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 345 bytes --]

* 2021-08-15 15:35:37+0800, Hongyi Zhao wrote:

> $ git log | grep -m1 -A1 -B1 -i 'Richard M. Stallman'

Here is about the same command line but it uses more "git" and less
"grep":

    git log --all -1 --author=Stallman

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 4E1055DC84E9DFF613D78557719D69D324539450

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 251 bytes --]

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Hongyi Zhao]

On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 5:28 PM Teemu Likonen <tlikonen@iki.fi> wrote:
>
> * 2021-08-15 15:35:37+0800, Hongyi Zhao wrote:
>
> > $ git log | grep -m1 -A1 -B1 -i 'Richard M. Stallman'
>
> Here is about the same command line but it uses more "git" and less
> "grep":
>
>     git log --all -1 --author=Stallman

Wonderful. Thank you for pointing this out. This is a pure combination
of Linus and RMS.

Regards, Hongyi

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Hongyi Zhao wrote:

>> Here is about the same command line but it uses more "git"
>> and less "grep":
>>
>>     git log --all -1 --author=Stallman
>
> Wonderful. Thank you for pointing this out. This is a pure
> combination of Linus and RMS.

Like giving the Han Solo award to the Rebel Fleet...

Linus Torvalds on the "GNU slash Linux" issue: "You _can_ do
that, if you put out a distribution - for example Debian,
that's Debian GNU/Linux - because obviously, if you put
together your own distribution, you get to call it whatever
you want."

:)

(Quote from memory, it is from some of the Linux
documentaries, "Revolution OS" is the one that comes to
mind...)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

> (Quote from memory, it is from some of the Linux
> documentaries, "Revolution OS" is the one that comes to
> mind...)

Some people say the Pirate Bay's oldest torrent is
"Revolution OS" (2001)

  https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/72gnb8/the_pirate_bays_oldest_torrent_is_revolution_os/

Now the full movie is available here as well:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1h4RNetLbg

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Wayne Harris via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
<help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:

[...]

> (Quote from memory, it is from some of the Linux
> documentaries, "Revolution OS" is the one that comes to
> mind...)

Really cool movie.  Thanks for reminding me of it.

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Jude DaShiell]

Last I read on an article comparing emacs and vim, Stephen Monier had the
emacs lead passed to him by Richard Stallman and the fact that emacs has a
line of succession made it different from vim in that vim had no clear
line of succession.  At that time the lead developer of vim hadn't
designated anyone to take over development when the original lead
developer of vim could no longer continue developing for whatever reason.


On Sat, 21 Aug 2021, Wayne Harris via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
editor wrote:

> Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
> <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:
>
> [...]
>
> > (Quote from memory, it is from some of the Linux
> > documentaries, "Revolution OS" is the one that comes to
> > mind...)
>
> Really cool movie.  Thanks for reminding me of it.
>
>
>

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Jude DaShiell wrote:

> Last I read on an article comparing emacs and vim, Stephen
> Monier had the emacs lead passed to him by Richard Stallman
> and the fact that emacs has a line of succession made it
> different from vim in that vim had no clear line of
> succession. At that time the lead developer of vim hadn't
> designated anyone to take over development when the original
> lead developer of vim could no longer continue developing
> for whatever reason.

Ha, what is this, Medieval Europe?

I'm sure Vim has a maintainer just like Emacs ...

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Jude DaShiell]

By now possibly, but you failed to understand my original post.  When you
want support for software to continue beyond your life span it pays to
locate and designate with their agreement someone to take over lead
development for you at the appropriate time.  The earlier you do this, the
better if you're careful in your selection process.   It's like continuity
of government and why the United States has a chain of titles 50 deep to
replace the President.


On Sun, 22 Aug 2021, Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
editor wrote:

> Jude DaShiell wrote:
>
> > Last I read on an article comparing emacs and vim, Stephen
> > Monier had the emacs lead passed to him by Richard Stallman
> > and the fact that emacs has a line of succession made it
> > different from vim in that vim had no clear line of
> > succession. At that time the lead developer of vim hadn't
> > designated anyone to take over development when the original
> > lead developer of vim could no longer continue developing
> > for whatever reason.
>
> Ha, what is this, Medieval Europe?
>
> I'm sure Vim has a maintainer just like Emacs ...
>
>

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Jude DaShiell wrote:

> By now possibly, but you failed to understand my original
> post. When you want support for software to continue beyond
> your life span it pays to locate and designate with their
> agreement someone to take over lead development for you at
> the appropriate time. The earlier you do this, the better if
> you're careful in your selection process. It's like
> continuity of government and why the United States has
> a chain of titles 50 deep to replace the President.

I doesn't matter but personally I don't think it works like
that. If people care about the software, plenty of people will
contribute to it, and it doesn't matter what you do. And if
they don't, again it doesn't matter what you do, you can't
make them.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[tomas]

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On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 08:53:14PM -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Last I read on an article comparing emacs and vim, Stephen Monier had the
> emacs lead passed to him by Richard Stallman and the fact that emacs has a
> line of succession made it different from vim in that vim had no clear
> line of succession.

I wonder what article that is. Vim is alive and well, and still maintained
by Bram Moolenaar (last sign of life I could gather with a quick Internet
search 2020-11-11 [1]). Now Vim is by far not as active and lively as Emacs
is, but "no clear line of succession" smells of over-simplification to me.

There are forks of vim (e.g. NeoVim), but hey, there have been important
forks of Emacs too (LucidEmacs/XEmacs). I'm not the one to decide whether
such a fork is a good thing or not, but once the fork is there, it's a
wonderful chance to learn from each other. And free software makes exactly
this possible.

So tell your article authors they should do better research :-)

Cheers
 - t

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Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

tomas wrote:

> There are forks of vim (e.g. NeoVim), but hey, there have
> been important forks of Emacs too (LucidEmacs/XEmacs).

Well, there is no (or less) need to fork Emacs as everyone
just do their own Elisp anyway ...

There is also the Lucid/XEmacs fork SXEmacs BTW.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Samuel Banya]

The way I think of this is like this:

There always will be a fork.

Look at Vim:
Sure the same guy is still leading major git commits, but most people use Neovim anyway.

Same thing with Emacs, especially if they force Rust into the main Emacs repo. That's when I'll start looking for different forks of it as I'm more of a fan of C anyway.

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021, at 8:53 PM, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Last I read on an article comparing emacs and vim, Stephen Monier had the
> emacs lead passed to him by Richard Stallman and the fact that emacs has a
> line of succession made it different from vim in that vim had no clear
> line of succession.  At that time the lead developer of vim hadn't
> designated anyone to take over development when the original lead
> developer of vim could no longer continue developing for whatever reason.
> 
> 
> On Sat, 21 Aug 2021, Wayne Harris via Users list for the GNU Emacs text
> editor wrote:
> 
> > Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
> > <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> writes:
> >
> > [...]
> >
> > > (Quote from memory, it is from some of the Linux
> > > documentaries, "Revolution OS" is the one that comes to
> > > mind...)
> >
> > Really cool movie.  Thanks for reminding me of it.
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 13:05:30 -0400
> From: "Samuel Banya" <sbanya@fastmail.com>
> 
> The way I think of this is like this:
> 
> There always will be a fork.

I suggest to think again, and this time based on what history teaches
us.  There _have_ been forks of Emacs, and we already know how they
ended.

I guess forking Emacs is not the same as forking another project, even
if it's Vim.

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Arthur Miller]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

>> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 13:05:30 -0400
>> From: "Samuel Banya" <sbanya@fastmail.com>
>> 
>> The way I think of this is like this:
>> 
>> There always will be a fork.
>
> I suggest to think again, and this time based on what history teaches
> us.  There _have_ been forks of Emacs, and we already know how they
> ended.
>
> I guess forking Emacs is not the same as forking another project, even
> if it's Vim.

Remacs is officially dead:

"This project isn't maintained anymore."

https://github.com/remacs/remacs

Emacs "Next Generation" is on the way ... :-).

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Samuel Banya]

Gives me faith in humanity, thanks for this.

Would have still figured out how to use Org Mode appropriately though as I use this all the time for work and for personal use.

On Sun, Aug 22, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Arthur Miller wrote:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> >> Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 13:05:30 -0400
> >> From: "Samuel Banya" <sbanya@fastmail.com>
> >> 
> >> The way I think of this is like this:
> >> 
> >> There always will be a fork.
> >
> > I suggest to think again, and this time based on what history teaches
> > us.  There _have_ been forks of Emacs, and we already know how they
> > ended.
> >
> > I guess forking Emacs is not the same as forking another project, even
> > if it's Vim.
> 
> Remacs is officially dead:
> 
> "This project isn't maintained anymore."
> 
> https://github.com/remacs/remacs
> 
> Emacs "Next Generation" is on the way ... :-).
> 
> 

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Samuel Banya wrote:

> The way I think of this is like this:
>
> There always will be a fork.
>
> Look at Vim:
> Sure the same guy is still leading major git commits, but
> most people use Neovim anyway.
>
> Same thing with Emacs, especially if they force Rust into
> the main Emacs repo. That's when I'll start looking for
> different forks of it as I'm more of a fan of C anyway.

It's the same thing! Especially if that happens.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Tim Johnson]

On 8/23/21 10:16 AM, Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text 
editor wrote:
> Samuel Banya wrote:
>
>> The way I think of this is like this:
>>
>> There always will be a fork.
>>
>> Look at Vim:
>> Sure the same guy is still leading major git commits, but
>> most people use Neovim anyway.
>>
>> Same thing with Emacs, especially if they force Rust into
>> the main Emacs repo. That's when I'll start looking for
>> different forks of it as I'm more of a fan of C anyway.
> It's the same thing! Especially if that happens.
Good grief, I never heard of neovim until just now. Have used vim
for ages, especially for adhoc system editing and have evil on emacs.

As much as I've always admired vim, I've been a little concerned that it 
appears
to be a one-developer system. Glad to see that emacs has moved away from
that.

cheers

-- 
Tim
tj49.com

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Jean Louis]

* Tim Johnson <tim@akwebsoft.com> [2021-08-24 00:05]:
> Good grief, I never heard of neovim until just now. Have used vim
> for ages, especially for adhoc system editing and have evil on emacs.
> 
> As much as I've always admired vim, I've been a little concerned
> that it appears to be a one-developer system. Glad to see that emacs
> has moved away from that.

As Vim is extensible similarly as Emacs everybody can contribute to it
by providing extensions.

If software is useful, I don't see any problem if it would be
developed by single person. That is how majority of projects
starts. 

As it is free software you are free to fork and build upon it if there
is no possibility where you could, instead of forking it yourself,
contribute collaboratively.


-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Jean Louis wrote:

> As Vim is extensible similarly as Emacs everybody can
> contribute to it by providing extensions.
>
> If software is useful, I don't see any problem if it would
> be developed by single person. That is how majority of
> projects starts.
>
> As it is free software you are free to fork and build upon
> it if there is no possibility where you could, instead of
> forking it yourself, contribute collaboratively.

If a single person does it, that isn't at problem as long as
no one else wants to do it. Then it is "reality".

If a single person does it, and the rest cannot do it except
for forking it and become another "single person doing it",
that's a _huge_ problem and that model is unlikely to be
successful as it would require a brilliant person who can
accomplish wonders with no help from anyone else.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Wayne Harris via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor wrote:

>> Quote from memory, it is from some of the Linux
>> documentaries, "Revolution OS" is the one that comes to
>> mind...
>
> Really cool movie. Thanks for reminding me of it.

ikr?

Download from or see it again here:

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1h4RNetLbg

What other educative/good computer movies are there?

We should compile a list and put it on the EmacsWiki!

A lot of "revolutions" with computers tho. In my mind the
transistor (_the_ revolution), the personal computer, and the
internet all rank above GNU, Linux, and FOSS. (But it is just
a word, I get it. A movie title, even.)

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Arthur Miller]

Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> writes:

> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 3:18 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>> [...]
>> The AUTHORS file lists contributions to Emacs since the very
>> beginning, more than 35 years ago.  Any contributions since then till
>> this day are reflected in AUTHORS, and what the contributors do lately
>> doesn't matter at all.  How far back did you go in your study of RMS's
>> contributions?
>
> I got some clues based on some digging into the Emacs git repo, as shown below:

Have  you maybe considered to subscribe to emacs-devel@gnu.org and maybe
ask RMS yourself?

Or maybe you could search emacs mail archive yourself and see how much
his posts:

https://lists.gnu.org/archive/cgi-bin/namazu.cgi?query=stallman&submit=Search%21&idxname=emacs-devel&max=100&result=short&sort=date%3Alate

Re: Does Richard M. Stallman still scrutinize and develop the codes of Emacs now?

[Jean Louis]

* Hongyi Zhao <hongyi.zhao@gmail.com> [2021-08-15 10:36]:
> On Sun, Aug 15, 2021 at 3:18 PM Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > [...]
> > The AUTHORS file lists contributions to Emacs since the very
> > beginning, more than 35 years ago.  Any contributions since then till
> > this day are reflected in AUTHORS, and what the contributors do lately
> > doesn't matter at all.  How far back did you go in your study of RMS's
> > contributions?
> 
> I got some clues based on some digging into the Emacs git repo, as shown below:
> 
> $ git log -1
> commit 3572613550f5d1d0b3392dbc809b32f3989e2981 (HEAD -> master,
> origin/master, origin/HEAD)
> Author: Wolfgang Scherer <wolfgang.scherer@gmx.de>
> Date:   Sun Aug 15 04:02:23 2021 +0300
> 
> $ git log | grep -m1 -A1 -B1 -i 'Richard M. Stallman'
> commit dca743f0941909a80e3f28c023977120b6203e20
> Author: Richard M. Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Date:   Sun Mar 22 03:51:55 2015 -0400
> 
> The most recent commit by RMS was done in 2015.

It is good that you read the Emacs Devel mailing list as to understand
how RMS contributes these days.

How I see it is that RMS has created quite well organized system where
contributors are welcome as it is free software and where the project
develops itself by good will and contributions of so many helpful
people.

So far until now it is well run organization that more or less police
itself, it is self-working, self-functioning organization developing
Emacs more and more.

Every planner of any organization or a project should be proud to
achieve the state where planner is free and organization continues as
envisioned.

RMS's personal commits compared to the above don't matter much. What
matters is that Emacs lives, is being developed and that there are
many authors and contributors.



-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/