From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Gregory Heytings via "Emacs development discussions." Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: How to make Emacs popular again. Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2020 22:33:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200926163008.GS1349@protected.rcdrun.com> <749c3394-ec9a-43a5-aad6-942a5583d072@default> Reply-To: Gregory Heytings Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21082"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Alpine 2.22 (NEB 394 2020-01-19) Cc: Robert Pluim , emacs-devel@gnu.org, bobnewell@bobnewell.net, Richard Stallman , =?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?= To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Oct 09 00:34:35 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kQeUd-0005NK-LM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 09 Oct 2020 00:34:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49570 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQeUc-0003Ec-M3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 18:34:34 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40812) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQeTf-0002nz-Eu for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 18:33:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mx.sdf.org ([205.166.94.24]:57374) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kQeTd-0005An-EA; Thu, 08 Oct 2020 18:33:35 -0400 Original-Received: from sdf.org (IDENT:ghe@otaku.sdf.org [205.166.94.8]) by mx.sdf.org (8.15.2/8.14.5) with ESMTPS id 098MXN6O024223 (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256 bits) verified NO); Thu, 8 Oct 2020 22:33:23 GMT Original-Received: (from ghe@localhost) by sdf.org (8.15.2/8.12.8/Submit) id 098MXi9E011020; Thu, 8 Oct 2020 22:33:44 GMT In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.166.94.24; envelope-from=ghe@sdf.org; helo=mx.sdf.org X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/08 15:58:48 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = ??? X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:257234 Archived-At: > > I see it generally. What do you see when you use `C-h f defcustom' or > `C-h v print-circle? Don't you see links for each of the quoted (`...') > functions and vars? > Yes, but not for the most important one: the function/variable/face... being described, defcustom or print-circle in your examples. >> Wouldn't a "See also chapter N ZZZZ in the Emacs manual." and/or "For >> programmers, see also chapter N ZZZZ in the Emacs Lisp manual." (with >> hyperlinks) at the end of ordinary help buffers be much more useful? > > For which symbols? Are you going to add such a see-also for each quoted > name in a `*Help*' buffer? > No, only for the main symbol, the symbol whose docstring is being displayed in the help buffer. At least that was the meaning of the proposal I sent a few hours ago: to add one (or more) link(s) at the end of the docstring pointing to the chapter(s) of the manual(s) in which they are documented. > > I've long said that we need that for the thing that is the subject of > the `*Help*' buffer. > Then I agree with you :-) > > And we do have it for some `*Help*' buffers - e.g., `C-h f defcustom'. > Thank you, this is an excellent example, it is exactly what I meant: a link to the chapter of the manual. > > Inline (i.e., in-context) links are better, in general, than a pile of > see-also's at the end of the buffer. > Not a pile, one or two. The point is to make manuals more accessible.