From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Fix some tooltip related problems Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 06:42:37 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <5A533FA4.4030507@gmx.at> <9384bae5-cbb9-4b4d-ac5c-1d01f01c8117@default> <5A53B633.5020706@gmx.at> <41d40db5-15d8-4b2c-a058-fb6dabc8bfd3@default> <5A548E7E.2040601@gmx.at> <5A55E8ED.1010602@gmx.at> <475d480b-3885-4779-ae46-09cf7fbbcee7@default> <5A5742E7.3070303@gmx.at> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1515681716 10698 195.159.176.226 (11 Jan 2018 14:41:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:41:56 +0000 (UTC) To: martin rudalics , emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 11 15:41:52 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1eZe38-00027h-6v for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 15:41:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48053 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZe57-0007FW-RC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:43:49 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34080) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZe4G-0007EF-0L for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:42:56 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZe4C-0002MF-3N for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:42:56 -0500 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:53118) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eZe4B-0002L0-R5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 09:42:52 -0500 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.22/8.16.0.22) with SMTP id w0BEfgWR158297; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:42:42 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2017-10-26; bh=TPQx+ut9RHTB/bt+p15EukiNzwQDsBgFNbDhW1GVXc8=; b=nSyWt6jYBj1/9wvSqKszl333oUuscBIa4wYrEcj3IuT2TKV34zF6tt0dNsC3XWxJX+o7 WDqqjHx1wgcilO8AFEsjlLeR4f9WRF5EMWuZwpnIE16GTOy7GA6bGU/IaJGYmFp35yUa 1o2uYPCnCJhQUD2Xd9kLKDZuLsY6Mx5+BwSVfV8he5G8URDsvfPbHn4kuHlcRdXEUH1B yHaxlInBKiINqF0KO01VBoJfYSCDnhzt268Tje33px8fxf0yexCm7hsCelHLXCSkrE8e t1jKVdB2HJaw2J5R6/hIEzdIEL8MHa0oKnl8xBnF8KSUjpxPKt5xpW/5SbOVhLCGzybw ag== Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2fe9r8g3vr-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:42:42 +0000 Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id w0BEgcq3019964 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:42:38 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0010.oracle.com (abhmp0010.oracle.com [141.146.116.16]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w0BEgcIG009300; Thu, 11 Jan 2018 14:42:38 GMT In-Reply-To: <5A5742E7.3070303@gmx.at> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4627.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=8770 signatures=668652 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=382 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1801110205 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.85 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:221835 Archived-At: > System tooltips are lightweight objects with restricted abilities. > They have uniform appearance and the single tooltip window is usually > shared among all running programs and the operating system. >=20 > Emacs tooltips are merely an emulation of system tooltips. Most > restrictions of system tooltips have been retrofit artificially, like > uniform faces which are built into `tooltip-show' (but can be avoided > by using `x-show-tip' as you mention above) or the fact that only one > tooltip can be present at any time. >=20 > The great disadvantage of Emacs tooltips is that they are heavyweight > precisely due to their versatility. Showing an Emacs tooltip here on > Windows with -Q incurs an entire GC cycle. Also, there are some minor > annoyances like the one that showing Emacs tooltips for menu items > depends on the presence of a blinking cursor. Thanks for this clear background description. If none of the limitations of system tooltips can be eliminated easily, and none of the limitations of non-system (i.e., "Emacs") tooltips can be eliminated easily, can we perhaps have both, being able to choose for any given context which to use? Being able to use different, and multiple faces, or images, or whatever, in a tooltip can be great for some contexts/applications, even if it is not needed for others. Can we let Lisp code (and so users too) decide, here or there, which kind of tooltip to use (heavyweight "Emacs" or lightweight "system")? "The great disadvantage of Emacs tooltips is that they are heavyweight precisely due to their versatility." Good summary. And their great advantage is their versatility. Let's please offer both, if that's not too difficult.