From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Please post older versions of GNU Emacs manuals on the web Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 09:19:04 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <<1e249214-6831-4c2b-98a4-d16a6d1d7048@default>> <<83a8onc3vc.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451755173 23890 80.91.229.3 (2 Jan 2016 17:19:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2016 17:19:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 02 18:19:22 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aFPpp-0006XE-AE for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 18:19:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39104 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFPpn-00035T-JU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:19:19 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33429) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFPpi-000344-7x for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:19:15 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFPph-0001yp-Ad for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:19:14 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:45708) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aFPpb-0001y9-N6; Sat, 02 Jan 2016 12:19:07 -0500 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u02HJ6F4019469 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Jan 2016 17:19:06 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u02HJ6HE029114 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Jan 2016 17:19:06 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u02HJ6Tr000683; Sat, 2 Jan 2016 17:19:06 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83a8onc3vc.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197375 Archived-At: > > Suppose you are using Emacs 24.3 (or Emacs 23 or...). You visit > > the Elisp manual and you use `i defadvice' to visit the advice doc. > > > > You want to visit the same manual section on line (HTTP). Perhaps > > you want to bookmark it for use when you do not have Emacs available. > > Or maybe you want to send the URL to someone or post it in online > > Emacs help. Or maybe you want to print some of the HTML pages. > > > > Here's the rub. Only the manuals for the latest Emacs release > > are available on line. And because Emacs (unwisely) removed the > > doc for `defadvice', you are out of luck. There is no online doc > > for you. >=20 > Nothing can ever be "removed" from the Internet. You can find your > v24.3 version of ELisp manual, and in it the chapter about advising, > here: >=20 > https://web.archive.org/web/20121224105042/http://www.gnu.org/software/em= acs > /manual/html_node/elisp/Advising-Functions.html#Advising-Functions >=20 > (Google for "wayback machine" if you want to find old versions of some > URLs, including URLs that no longer exist.) Sure, the Wayback Machine is a great resource, and the Internet Archive responsible for it is a great place to visit in San Francisco. But telling users to look to Internet archives (or to just google for "defadvice emacs") does not really answer my question of "Why not?" or respond to my proposal. IMO we should offer Emacs users easy online access to the manuals for older Emacs versions, the same way we offer them easy access to the recent manuals and to both the recent and older versions of the software. This is the least we could do to help users and show them respect. It should not be easier to find information about older releases of Oracle, Apple, Microsoft, or IBM software than it is to find such info for Emacs.