From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Managing environments (Python venv, guix environment, etc.) Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 03:05:37 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87y453sy0n.fsf@earth.catern.com> <87r3arripr.fsf@earth.catern.com> <874m7jygot.fsf@earth.catern.com> <83oa5ox21u.fsf@gnu.org> <123d2ae9-b523-5d5b-3bf8-c6e4462270b8@yandex.ru> <83vazvt8q3.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1469405160 9419 80.91.229.3 (25 Jul 2016 00:06:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2016 00:06:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 25 02:05:55 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bRTP7-0003kS-JQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Jul 2016 02:05:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57950 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bRTP6-0003qi-NV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 20:05:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47742) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bRTOy-0003ou-3p for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 20:05:45 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bRTOu-00050u-Sr for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 20:05:44 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wm0-x22b.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b]:35959) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bRTOu-00050j-Kl; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 20:05:40 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-wm0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id q128so115704466wma.1; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 17:05:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CMOvGUncCrMXoIzHZ82c2vcCJiPLajXJt/JES0+vHNU=; b=uxbIgiLWyF7uoQytxMeadJHR1HZcTwE5F8YWXhUfeNHmSAaRwhHstlDzGSZTG3rN3g 1ewimqx5mz82xvVgoK9fkKYohQ3EBg7z7SfIoNDVgxFJ8CeMc3MgloRqy+MKQ6gxXbPQ W9L7k3x2qvtMoIizlcQyr1eIYQHCHF41GSHxFIGkQgyxLMQE5L+DR5muZpqFSS1WFmjG pi7ghM6WqfICM19dOL/yJ0S0Fe39ajfioxD9i5IoO3t+MWMbKnU3x5tW3qaJfO4ThmpK m2TJsFAj/i8Vfp50PNMVrgqBnAxz5TsF6rKn/tNDseX4q1vGRvEyz4AhivJjK558FhV9 VXmA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CMOvGUncCrMXoIzHZ82c2vcCJiPLajXJt/JES0+vHNU=; b=mc3O11Oc/zXH8hiednqcUH7qucUJ2QlCh2bbicyt4Vbzy4aKb3aCnjVbg0z4kXF2Jc ++hDFQwxhiRm/L0SOYE0+rSTWzTMtRwp+N7+WAhd97nCZCotyLh38PJcqivOWhQ8WqvV 7ur1RDqhLkI0KLNN3YfNWnNK5pvKMmO9zIdtO240x0MFdI9KR2HVW1THOOn8p/Rtl2g4 fny5AfwliftT2KAz1OenffEz6gtp9SixBtbgMUxLAlOzFrtG+27EeNt91Yj2O8jkuRrD vMvzemK2En53ZTIPsfzX/wvI5bJuqnd8G5KT6N+PLjn7CFgU32HKwqfl4sHwqNtS+NlF e6TQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tJywES2BCUISxYjJuOq48QHE02+oJWIYLe1S7mLTPryuvggZTiMWho1NFGyydUqWg== X-Received: by 10.28.58.7 with SMTP id h7mr36126196wma.35.1469405139753; Sun, 24 Jul 2016 17:05:39 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.1.2] ([185.105.173.135]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id yt6sm12854463wjc.23.2016.07.24.17.05.37 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sun, 24 Jul 2016 17:05:38 -0700 (PDT) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:47.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/47.0 In-Reply-To: <83vazvt8q3.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c09::22b X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:206100 Archived-At: On 07/24/2016 05:24 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> We do have file-remote-p, don't we? Maybe the code in question should be >> fixed. > > No, I meant that we assume these are remote files without testing, > e.g. that primitives which support local files, like expand-file-name, > don't DTRT for them. The code is written with that assumption in > mind. Couldn't that be fixed? Anyway, I think using file-name-handler-alist is not a good idea because it'll make for worse debugging experience. >>> I always thought that features like this one should use and extent >>> the infrastructure in project.el. And yet Dmitry is silent in this >>> discussion. What am I missing? >> >> I don't know exactly if project.el is the best place for it. Maybe we >> should see how well environment.el works as a separate feature, and if >> that makes sense, incorporate it after. > > It would sound strange to me that project.el fails to support > essentially the first serious client of its intended audience. Maybe project.el will end up a misnomer (but I don't have a better name that is not too long). Essentially, if we tie the new feature to projects, that will likely limit its usability. Or at least if we do that in the obvious way I can think of. Consider: if we just add a new defgeneric (or two) to project.el, any specialized environment implementation would either have to provide its own full project implementation (i.e. it'll be unable to use vc-project), or it'll have to define specialized implementations of these methods just for certain types of projects it knows about. That's not to say that we couldn't add new defdenerics to project.el for the purpose of overriding the current environment setup... but I'd like to see some real use case for that first.