From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16513: 24.3.50; doc string of `use-empty-active-region' Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 11:20:07 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: References: <8da28f3d-e5ec-48d4-9407-377ec2afbc6c@default> <87inz01kd1.fsf@gnus.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1461954106 16673 80.91.229.3 (29 Apr 2016 18:21:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:21:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 16513@debbugs.gnu.org To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 29 20:21:33 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1awD2j-0007wq-6C for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 20:21:33 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55800 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awD2f-0003it-3z for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:21:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:35425) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awD2U-0003Pn-1w for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:21:24 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awD2I-0000v5-66 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:21:12 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:43400) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1awD2H-0000t5-QZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:21:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awD2E-0003xZ-FP for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:21:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:21:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16513 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: fixed Original-Received: via spool by 16513-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16513.146195402315161 (code B ref 16513); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:21:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16513) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Apr 2016 18:20:23 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55737 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awD1a-0003wT-6y for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:20:22 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:42511) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1awD1X-0003vs-Oc for 16513@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 14:20:20 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u3TIKBdD019445 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:20:11 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3TIKAqn011457 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:20:11 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0001.oracle.com (abhmp0001.oracle.com [141.146.116.7]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u3TIK8k2022362; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 18:20:09 GMT In-Reply-To: <87inz01kd1.fsf@gnus.org> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:117232 Archived-At: > > 1. Remove the last part: ", and on the text near point otherwise." It > > is inappropriate and wrong. (This is the reason I filed this bug.) > > > > This is about commands that act differently depending on whether or > > not the region is active. Do not say anything about what the behavior > > must be in either case: active or inactive. Certainly, do not claim > > that when the region is inactive such commands act on the text near > > point. That is pure fantasy. >=20 > I think I understand what Chong was trying to express here now. >=20 > --- > Region-aware commands are those that act on the region if it is > active and Transient Mark mode is enabled, and on the text near > point otherwise. > --- >=20 > This explains the concept of "region-aware" commands -- they typically > switch between acting on the stuff around point and the stuff in the > region. Like `DEL', which deletes the region if it is active, and the > previous character if not. >=20 > So I don't think it's wrong... It is wrong. What is correct is that region-aware commands act on the region when it is active. What is 100% wrong (though it could be right for some command, of course) is to say anything about the behavior when the region is not active. It is just not true in general that when the region is not active the command acts on text near point. That is pure invention. NOTHING makes that happen. A region-aware command can do anything at all when the region is not active. What could reasonably be said, perhaps, is that in general such commands do something similar but to some other text, not necessarily to the region text. And in practice, such commands (those that are predefined by Emacs, in any case) typically act on the entire accessible portion of the buffer (i.e., the whole buffer or its current restriction (narrowing)). But certainly not some text near point. > > 2. Simplify the following, which suggests that having an active region > > is somehow different from having an active mark: > > > > "If non-nil, region-aware commands treat the region as active as long a= s > > the mark is active, even if the region is empty." Just say: "If > > non-nil, region-aware commands treat an active region as such, even if > > it is empty." >=20 > No, I like the mention of the mark, which helps my understanding of what > it's saying. It suggests that having an active region is somehow different from having an active mark. Instead, it would help to say explicitly that they are the same thing: when the mark is active so is the region, and vice versa.