From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: ASCII-only startup message? Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 10:00:39 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <567ECD8C.1070408@cs.ucla.edu> <8360zlhy7x.fsf@gnu.org> <567EE043.9020109@cs.ucla.edu> <83y4chgh5q.fsf@gnu.org> <567EED47.1090700@cs.ucla.edu> <83si2pgci8.fsf@gnu.org> <567F22B1.9040702@cs.ucla.edu> <2dc99848-b6d5-4f53-b22c-66e29d15647c@default> <444c19cb-4687-41c4-8291-481f5b5a42a1@default> <9e93866e-c6a4-42e3-b8b2-70fd6185b25e@default> <568102D0.5030707@cs.ucla.edu> <032eb0f9-1cc3-44fa-b37b-af697c8bdc86@default> <5682BD46.3000108@cs.ucla.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1451412079 11396 80.91.229.3 (29 Dec 2015 18:01:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:01:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs developers To: Paul Eggert , Yuri Khan , Random832 Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Dec 29 19:01:07 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aDya1-00079J-Jb for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 19:01:05 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:49611 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDya1-00046U-3J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:01:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33272) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDyZp-00045x-F7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:00:54 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDyZm-0002AC-0y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:00:53 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:49493) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aDyZl-00029s-QS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 13:00:49 -0500 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id tBTI0fOF005085 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:00:42 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tBTI0ecf012743 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:00:41 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0015.oracle.com (abhmp0015.oracle.com [141.146.116.21]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tBTI0eo6001492; Tue, 29 Dec 2015 18:00:40 GMT In-Reply-To: <5682BD46.3000108@cs.ucla.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:197121 Archived-At: > As for UTF-8 =E2=80=9Cconquering the world=E2=80=9D; obviously it hasn=E2= =80=99t done that yet, and > Emacs will need to support legacy encodings for quite some time. That bei= ng > said, recent surveys from W3Techs continues to show steady growth for UTF= -8 > on the Web, with 86% of websites currently using UTF-8 (up from 82% a yea= r > ago). All other encodings are declining in use, or at best remaining > constant to within the stated precision of measurement (e.g., EUC-KR at 0= .4%). >=20 > http://w3techs.com/technologies/history_overview/character_encoding It's not just about what proportion of websites use UTF-8. Emacs is not a website. We are not redesigning a website. There are plenty of problems that other _editing_ applications have with things like Unicode apostrophe/quotation characters. Such problems promise to be at least as great for Emacs, where "editing" means so much more than it does for something like MS Word. Most importantly, there is _no hurry_ to force Unicode apostrophes and other problematic choices on Emacs users. Emacs already supports the use of Unicode fully by _users_. User choice is primary in Emacs. Trying to nail down now, once and for all, as a design-time decision, is a crazy form of premature conformance - overengineering. _Wait and see_ more about how Emacs users use Unicode and what they want and expect. _Wait and see_ more about how other editing systems deal with the problematic issues, such as handling of spelling, search, etc. wrt things like apostrophes. There is _no hurry_ to cast this stuff in bronze. Unicode is great. But there is no need to go over the kool-aid top on this regrooving.