From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#22604: 24.5; (elisp) `Key Binding Conventions': what about other `C-c' keys? Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 09:24:03 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: References: <<38cef267-d54f-40d5-9282-563615551367@default> <29ac44ad-3c5d-486e-abd7-a7ef70e906d1@default> <0fa54275-c058-4f38-9ef4-cc24de315dc0@default>> <<838u2tddcs.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1455038736 12088 80.91.229.3 (9 Feb 2016 17:25:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 17:25:36 +0000 (UTC) Cc: schwab@suse.de, 22604@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 09 18:25:20 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aTC2O-00033l-Lp for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 18:25:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58615 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTC2N-00088L-Q8 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:25:15 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51974) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTC2F-000807-U4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:25:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTC2A-0002ZF-IE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:25:07 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:52895) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aTC2A-0002ZB-FE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:25:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aTC2A-0000oc-BY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:25:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2016 17:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 22604 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 22604-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B22604.14550386533073 (code B ref 22604); Tue, 09 Feb 2016 17:25:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 22604) by debbugs.gnu.org; 9 Feb 2016 17:24:13 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33803 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aTC1N-0000nV-3h for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:24:13 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:22948) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1aTC1M-0000nI-85 for 22604@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2016 12:24:12 -0500 Original-Received: from aserv0021.oracle.com (aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u19HO5pi017944 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 9 Feb 2016 17:24:05 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u19HO4Ys021821 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 9 Feb 2016 17:24:05 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u19HO4LG021795; Tue, 9 Feb 2016 17:24:04 GMT In-Reply-To: <<838u2tddcs.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:112813 Archived-At: > > > > For example, Lars recently proposed, in bug thread 22172, to bind > > > > `C-c +' and `C-c -' by default. Making the doc clearer about this > > > > would preclude such a suggestion, as those keys would fall under > > > > the category of "other punctuation", which is reserved for minor > > > > modes. > > > > > > Then they cannot be used if we follow our conventions. That looks cl= ear > > > enough to me. > > > > You feel that the convention is clear enough for you. > > > > Although I might agree with your interpretation of the convention > > as currently stated, I would like it to be stated more clearly, > > explicitly saying what it means by "punctuation", for example. >=20 > It's not really easy to define "punctuation" here. More importantly, > some of the characters that _are_ reserved aren't punctuation by > Unicode categorization (they are symbols). >=20 > Would it help if we said "ASCII punctuation and symbol characters"? > That's the official name of those characters, AFAICT, and the "ASCII" > part makes sure no one will think about non-ASCII punctuation > characters, which I think we don't want to reserve. >=20 > Enumerating the characters can be tedious, so I think we'd like to > avoid that. Yes, "punctuation and symbol characters" helps, IMO. That was one of my points: the chars are not necessarily punctuation, in the usual sense of the word. Dunno whether it's good to limit it to ASCII. At a minimum it should cover the "punctuation and symbol character" keys on a typical US keyboard, of course. Whether it should also cover other punctuation or other symbol chars is maybe an open question. It's really about character-inserting keys on a keyboard, not punctuation and symbol chars that are not on keys. But a key on a French keyboard that inserts a left guillemet char should, I think, be handled the same by the convention as is a key on a US keyboard that inserts a double-quote char or a left angle-bracket char. IOW, can/should we not apply the idea of such keys to keyboards that insert other than ASCII chars? I do agree that exhaustive enumeration would not be helpful.