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* Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
@ 2024-07-06 11:51 Jean Louis
  2024-07-06 11:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2024-07-06 11:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: GNU Emacs Help

I am trying to understand this, before I did not see that occuring. I
am editing many .el files and then since some months those files are
automatically read only on opening them in next session.

Why is this?

I don't want it read only on each new session.

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
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✡️🛡️ Proudly standing with Israel, a nation rooted in history and culture. Let's condemn hatred and promote understanding.

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-06 11:51 Since some months, my .el files are read only, why? Jean Louis
@ 2024-07-06 11:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
  2024-07-06 12:04   ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-07-06 11:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 14:51:35 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> 
> I am trying to understand this, before I did not see that occuring. I
> am editing many .el files and then since some months those files are
> automatically read only on opening them in next session.
> 
> Why is this?
> 
> I don't want it read only on each new session.

Details, please:

 . what Emacs version?
 . what are "my .el files"? are they those which came with Emacs,
   something that you yourself wrote, something else?
 . how do you visit them?



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-06 11:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2024-07-06 12:04   ` Eli Zaretskii
  2024-07-06 12:47     ` Jean Louis
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-07-06 12:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2024 14:58:57 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> 
> Details, please:
> 
>  . what Emacs version?
>  . what are "my .el files"? are they those which came with Emacs,
>    something that you yourself wrote, something else?
>  . how do you visit them?

And also:

  . what does "ls -l" say about these files?



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-06 12:04   ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2024-07-06 12:47     ` Jean Louis
  2024-07-06 13:55       ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2024-07-06 12:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 15:05]:
> > Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2024 14:58:57 +0300
> > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> > 
> > Details, please:
> > 
> >  . what Emacs version?
> >  . what are "my .el files"? are they those which came with Emacs,
> >    something that you yourself wrote, something else?
> >  . how do you visit them?

Those are files I write.

>   . what does "ls -l" say about these files?

-rw-r--r-- 1 lco lco 682090 Jul  6 15:25 rcd-cf.el
-rw-r--r-- 1 lco lco 112801 Jul  3 17:37 rcd-utilities.el

That is example.

I just opened rcd-utilities.el with `emacs -Q' and it is read-only.

But some other files are not read-only.



Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

✡️🛡️ Proudly standing with Israel, a nation rooted in history and culture. Let's condemn hatred and promote understanding.

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-06 12:47     ` Jean Louis
@ 2024-07-06 13:55       ` Eli Zaretskii
  2024-07-07  6:46         ` Jean Louis
  2024-07-14  6:00         ` Jean Louis
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-07-06 13:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2024 15:47:27 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 15:05]:
> > > Date: Sat, 06 Jul 2024 14:58:57 +0300
> > > From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
> > > 
> > > Details, please:
> > > 
> > >  . what Emacs version?
> > >  . what are "my .el files"? are they those which came with Emacs,
> > >    something that you yourself wrote, something else?
> > >  . how do you visit them?
> 
> Those are files I write.
> 
> >   . what does "ls -l" say about these files?
> 
> -rw-r--r-- 1 lco lco 682090 Jul  6 15:25 rcd-cf.el
> -rw-r--r-- 1 lco lco 112801 Jul  3 17:37 rcd-utilities.el
> 
> That is example.

You didn't say what Emacs version is that.

> I just opened rcd-utilities.el with `emacs -Q' and it is read-only.
> 
> But some other files are not read-only.

What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
same for files from both groups?



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-06 13:55       ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2024-07-07  6:46         ` Jean Louis
  2024-07-10  6:28           ` Emanuel Berg
  2024-07-14  6:00         ` Jean Louis
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2024-07-07  6:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
> You didn't say what Emacs version is that.

GNU Emacs 30.0.50 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.38, cairo version 1.16.0) of 2024-05-04

> > I just opened rcd-utilities.el with `emacs -Q' and it is read-only.
> > 
> > But some other files are not read-only.
> 
> What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
> same for files from both groups?

Yes, it shows the same. Some files are read only when opened, and some
are not. I cannot understand what is the difference.


Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

✡️🛡️ Proudly standing with Israel, a nation rooted in history and culture. Let's condemn hatred and promote understanding.

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-07  6:46         ` Jean Louis
@ 2024-07-10  6:28           ` Emanuel Berg
  2024-07-11 18:00             ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2024-07-10  6:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

Jean Louis wrote:

>>> I just opened rcd-utilities.el with `emacs -Q' and it is
>>> read-only.
>>> 
>>> But some other files are not read-only.
>> 
>> What's the difference between the two groups? Does "ls -l"
>> show the same for files from both groups?
>
> Yes, it shows the same. Some files are read only when
> opened, and some are not. I cannot understand what is
> the difference.

File local variables, desktop settings, different filesystems
you have at some point virtualized together pretty good but
not quite?

> Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
> https://www.fsf.org/campaigns
>
> ✡️🛡️ Proudly standing with Israel, a nation rooted in history
> and culture. Let's condemn hatred and promote understanding.
>
> In support of Richard M.
> Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/

Proudly standing with the insight that conflicts look
completely different depending from where you look and in
what direction.

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-10  6:28           ` Emanuel Berg
@ 2024-07-11 18:00             ` Emanuel Berg
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Emanuel Berg @ 2024-07-11 18:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

>> Yes, it shows the same. Some files are read only when
>> opened, and some are not. I cannot understand what is
>> the difference.
>
> File local variables, desktop settings, different
> filesystems you have at some point virtualized together
> pretty good but not quite?

Very strong Déjà vu from this.

Did it already happen?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-06 13:55       ` Eli Zaretskii
  2024-07-07  6:46         ` Jean Louis
@ 2024-07-14  6:00         ` Jean Louis
  2024-07-17  9:54           ` Robert Pluim
  2024-07-17 11:34           ` Eli Zaretskii
  1 sibling, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2024-07-14  6:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
> What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
> same for files from both groups?

I was using RCS before, then I stopped. But rcs was not installed. However, those files that were registered in RCS were read only.

I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.

But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.

Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

✡️🛡️ Proudly standing with Israel, a nation rooted in history and culture. Let's condemn hatred and promote understanding.

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-14  6:00         ` Jean Louis
@ 2024-07-17  9:54           ` Robert Pluim
  2024-07-17 13:31             ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  2024-07-17 11:34           ` Eli Zaretskii
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Robert Pluim @ 2024-07-17  9:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii

>>>>> On Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:00:53 +0300, Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> said:

    Jean> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
    >> What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
    >> same for files from both groups?

    Jean> I was using RCS before, then I stopped. But rcs was not installed. However, those files that were registered in RCS were read only.

    Jean> I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.

    Jean> But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.

vc-rcs.el installs a find-file hook that makes RCS buffers
readonly. Iʼm guessing that it checks just for the presence of RCS/
files (I says 'guessing' because vc is a twisty maze of passages).

Robert
-- 



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-14  6:00         ` Jean Louis
  2024-07-17  9:54           ` Robert Pluim
@ 2024-07-17 11:34           ` Eli Zaretskii
  2024-07-17 14:46             ` Jean Louis
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-07-17 11:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:00:53 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
> > What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
> > same for files from both groups?
> 
> I was using RCS before, then I stopped. But rcs was not installed. However, those files that were registered in RCS were read only.
> 
> I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.
> 
> But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.

That's clear to me: when you check-in a file into RCS, it is made
read-only in the filesystem.  That's how RCS works, always has.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-17  9:54           ` Robert Pluim
@ 2024-07-17 13:31             ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2024-07-17 13:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> vc-rcs.el installs a find-file hook that makes RCS buffers
> readonly.

Indeed:

    (defun vc-rcs-find-file-hook ()
      ;; If the file is locked by some other user, make
      ;; the buffer read-only.  Like this, even root
      ;; cannot modify a file that someone else has locked.
      (and (stringp (vc-state buffer-file-name 'RCS))
           (setq buffer-read-only t)))

> Iʼm guessing that it checks just for the presence of RCS/
> files (I says 'guessing' because vc is a twisty maze of passages).

No, it actually checks the RCS status.  It doesn't need the `rcs`
executable for that, instead it parses the RCS file.


        Stefan




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-17 11:34           ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2024-07-17 14:46             ` Jean Louis
  2024-07-19 17:40               ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2024-07-17 14:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-17 14:36]:
> > Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2024 09:00:53 +0300
> > From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-06 16:57]:
> > > What's the difference between the two groups?  Does "ls -l" show the
> > > same for files from both groups?
> > 
> > I was using RCS before, then I stopped. But rcs was not installed. However, those files that were registered in RCS were read only.
> > 
> > I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.
> > 
> > But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.
> 
> That's clear to me: when you check-in a file into RCS, it is made
> read-only in the filesystem.  That's how RCS works, always has.

Mystery solved.

Question is if it should be that way even if `rcs' command is not installed.


Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

✡️🛡️ Proudly standing with Israel, a nation rooted in history and culture. Let's condemn hatred and promote understanding.

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-17 14:46             ` Jean Louis
@ 2024-07-19 17:40               ` Eli Zaretskii
  2024-07-26  9:28                 ` Jean Louis
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-07-19 17:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 17:46:09 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-17 14:36]:
> > > I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.
> > > 
> > > But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.
> > 
> > That's clear to me: when you check-in a file into RCS, it is made
> > read-only in the filesystem.  That's how RCS works, always has.
> 
> Mystery solved.
> 
> Question is if it should be that way even if `rcs' command is not installed.

Emacs tries to be efficient, so it takes the existence of the RCS
subdirectory and the files in it as the indication of the fact that
the file is managed by RCS.  This is faster than invoking the RCS
programs.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-19 17:40               ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2024-07-26  9:28                 ` Jean Louis
  2024-07-30 16:44                   ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread
From: Jean Louis @ 2024-07-26  9:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-19 21:04]:
> > Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2024 17:46:09 +0300
> > From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> > Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> > 
> > * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-17 14:36]:
> > > > I have renamed RCS directory and now those files do not appear read only.
> > > > 
> > > > But I wonder how is that when rcs command was not installed.
> > > 
> > > That's clear to me: when you check-in a file into RCS, it is made
> > > read-only in the filesystem.  That's how RCS works, always has.
> > 
> > Mystery solved.
> > 
> > Question is if it should be that way even if `rcs' command is not installed.
> 
> Emacs tries to be efficient, so it takes the existence of the RCS
> subdirectory and the files in it as the indication of the fact that
> the file is managed by RCS.  This is faster than invoking the RCS
> programs.

Don't you think that some kind of warning shall be given about it, like in *Messages* that it did not find rcs command and that files are made read-only?

Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

✡️🛡️ Proudly standing with Israel, a nation rooted in history and culture. Let's condemn hatred and promote understanding.

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

* Re: Since some months, my .el files are read only, why?
  2024-07-26  9:28                 ` Jean Louis
@ 2024-07-30 16:44                   ` Eli Zaretskii
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-07-30 16:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: help-gnu-emacs

> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2024 12:28:35 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2024-07-19 21:04]:
> > Emacs tries to be efficient, so it takes the existence of the RCS
> > subdirectory and the files in it as the indication of the fact that
> > the file is managed by RCS.  This is faster than invoking the RCS
> > programs.
> 
> Don't you think that some kind of warning shall be given about it, like in *Messages* that it did not find rcs command and that files are made read-only?

Emacs doesn't know that rcs is not available, because it avoids
calling it.



^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2024-07-30 16:44 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2024-07-06 11:51 Since some months, my .el files are read only, why? Jean Louis
2024-07-06 11:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-06 12:04   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-06 12:47     ` Jean Louis
2024-07-06 13:55       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-07  6:46         ` Jean Louis
2024-07-10  6:28           ` Emanuel Berg
2024-07-11 18:00             ` Emanuel Berg
2024-07-14  6:00         ` Jean Louis
2024-07-17  9:54           ` Robert Pluim
2024-07-17 13:31             ` Stefan Monnier via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2024-07-17 11:34           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-17 14:46             ` Jean Louis
2024-07-19 17:40               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-26  9:28                 ` Jean Louis
2024-07-30 16:44                   ` Eli Zaretskii

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