From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 13:08:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87h6d87op5.fsf@dancol.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15987"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Daniel Colascione Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 02 15:09:44 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sOdGS-0003w6-Fw for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 15:09:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sOdG1-0002Qv-Lp; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 09:09:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sOdG0-0002QT-0v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 09:09:16 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sOdFx-000818-Mv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 09:09:15 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 814 invoked by uid 3782); 2 Jul 2024 15:08:59 +0200 Original-Received: from muc.de (p4fe15e87.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.94.135]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Tue, 02 Jul 2024 15:08:58 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 19126 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jul 2024 13:08:58 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87h6d87op5.fsf@dancol.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:321146 Archived-At: Hello, Daniel. On Mon, Jul 01, 2024 at 18:05:42 -0400, Daniel Colascione wrote: > Alan Mackenzie writes: > > On Mon, Jul 01, 2024 at 14:25:51 +0300, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > >> Hi Alan, > >> On 01/07/2024 13:07, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > >> > The above is true, but it misses the point. That point is that once the > >> > Emacs maintenance team has added a_default_ binding, that can never in > >> > the future be changed. People will scream "backward compatibility" > >> > until the heat death of the universe. > >> People screaming "backward compatibility" for each and every reason can > >> indeed be a problem. > > Yes, but it's a difficult problem. I would be screaming if somebody > > suggested removing the bindings C-o or C-M-o, for example. I use these > > all the time. But if I were the only user of them, it would be > > difficult to argue for their retention in the default key map. > I still think we need to find a better binding for C-o, FWIW. > I recognize I'm in the minority on this position though, but still, I > think I've used C-o maybe once or twice ever. > What do you use it for? I'm not all that sure, come to think of it. ;-) I think I use it to get the RH side of a text line "out of the way" before typing more in. Inserting an extra argument into a Lisp form is something I do a fair amount, but then I usually use C-M-o, leaving the moved part of the line at the same indentation, making it easier to reverse the change. > > On the other hand, C-x w h (highlight-regexp) already has a "more > > modern" binding M-s h r, so although I wouldn't be enthused about the > > removal of C-x w h, I wouldn't object to it either. > What do you think of my previous keybindings-editions proposal? Er, what would that be? Has it been in emacs-devel recently? > >> We should be able to change default key bindings more freely than we do now. > > Yes, but... Every time we do this, we're upsetting _sombody_'s work > > flow. I don't see any way of getting this increased freedom to change. > I love how https://xkcd.com/1172/ is about us. Yes! -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).