From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2024 13:29:21 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7133BE83-064B-43A4-A193-61376605222C@dancol.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23213"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Daniel Colascione , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 23 15:30:21 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sLNIS-0005p0-Hy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:30:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLNHe-0001PX-Bp; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:29:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLNHc-0001PH-D8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:29:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sLNHZ-0004HG-NM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 09:29:28 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 86995 invoked by uid 3782); 23 Jun 2024 15:29:22 +0200 Original-Received: from muc.de (p4fe15813.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.88.19]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 23 Jun 2024 15:29:21 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 22453 invoked by uid 1000); 23 Jun 2024 13:29:21 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:320520 Archived-At: Hello, Stefan. On Sun, Jun 23, 2024 at 05:30:32 -0700, Stefan Kangas wrote: > Alan Mackenzie writes: > > As I said, C-x 4 are convenient to you for windmove > > commands. They'll be convenient to other users for other commands in > > just the same way. You're proposing imposing your setup on everybody. > > I'm against this. > I think "imposing" is overstating the case, given that anyone can > easily unbind or rebind keybindings they don't like. Maybe. The post I was responding to didn't consist entirely of nuanced reasoned argument either. I also think "... can easily unbind or rebind keybindings ..." is also an exaggeration. It can be done, yes, by somebody who knows how, but finding where to unbind them and how is more than just a few minutes work for the typical user. I speak from experience here. org mode binds some arrow key combinations. Two of these, C-S- and C-S- which do some minor thing in org mode are bindings I use to scroll the current window down/up 6 lines. So, when somebody changed NEWS from outline mode to org mode some while ago, my finger memory stopped working. I never got around to disabling these bindings in org mode - it was just too much work. If we bind C-x 4 to windmove commands, we will be imposing just that inconvenience on people who already use the bindings for other commands. I don't think it's justified in this particular case. Those who need these bindings can bind them themselves, just as Daniel has done. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).