From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#67455: (Record source position, etc., in doc strings, and use this in *Help* and backtraces.) Date: Sun, 2 Jun 2024 13:38:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25477"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acm@muc.de, Eli Zaretskii , 67455@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 02 15:40:34 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sDlRq-0006T8-F4 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 15:40:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sDlRA-0002Uw-W5; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 09:39:53 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sDlR9-0002Uk-Oc for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 09:39:51 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sDlR8-0006uA-1G for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 09:39:51 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sDlRJ-0004N1-KL for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 09:40:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2024 13:40:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 67455 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 67455-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B67455.171733554716733 (code B ref 67455); Sun, 02 Jun 2024 13:40:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 67455) by debbugs.gnu.org; 2 Jun 2024 13:39:07 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58116 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sDlQR-0004Lp-CV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 09:39:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]:63030) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1sDlQN-0004LI-HX for 67455@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 09:39:06 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 7052 invoked by uid 3782); 2 Jun 2024 15:38:44 +0200 Original-Received: from muc.de (pd953a1be.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.83.161.190]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 02 Jun 2024 15:38:44 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 10995 invoked by uid 1000); 2 Jun 2024 13:38:43 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:286392 Archived-At: Hello, Stefan. On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 08:22:27 -0400, Stefan Monnier wrote: A bit of context: back in March, you took exception to the extensive hand expanded backquote forms in byte-run--posify-defining-form, on the ground that such code was too awkward for maintenance. I insisted that the function was needed by the macro defun. We ended up not agreeing. [ .... ] > The earlier the better, in theory, but not at any cost. Having to write > all that code within the very restrictive sublanguage available before > subr.el and backquote.el is a cost I don't think justifies it. > If we *really* want that, then we should explore other avenues, such as > keeping pre-macroexpanded versions of the files (for bootstrapping > purposes) but generating those files from files where a more normal > coding style can be used. > [ Something similar to the ldefs-boot.el. ] The solution now seems obvious: In loadup.el, we should load backquote.el before byte-run.el, and rewrite all our hand expanded backquotes in byte-run.el (including in byte-run--posify-defining-form) as actual backquote forms. backquote.el doesn't actually need anything in byte-run.el bar the macro defun itself. It would be a simple job to replace each (defun backquote-foo ...) in the file with (defalias 'backquote-foo #'(lambda ....)). What do you think? [ .... ] > Stefan -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).