From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Subversion of user chosen major mode by Emacs. Date: Thu, 30 May 2024 11:02:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <63afa31a-7874-4d1f-a17a-14a64ba516cb@gutov.dev> <4197c4a8-ee12-4fa7-9201-4d26f3be59c6@gutov.dev> <86ed9jsxjj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="31945"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: acorallo@gnu.org, dmitry@gutov.dev, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu May 30 13:03:14 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1sCdYt-0007xC-19 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 May 2024 13:03:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sCdY6-0000IF-VM; Thu, 30 May 2024 07:02:23 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sCdY4-0000I4-Cf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 May 2024 07:02:20 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1sCdY1-0006Q5-2C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 May 2024 07:02:20 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 61667 invoked by uid 3782); 30 May 2024 13:02:14 +0200 Original-Received: from muc.de (p4fe15f3a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.95.58]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 30 May 2024 13:02:14 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 4895 invoked by uid 1000); 30 May 2024 11:02:13 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <86ed9jsxjj.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:319740 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 08:01:36 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 29 May 2024 19:59:23 +0000 > > Cc: Dmitry Gutov , > > Stefan Monnier , Eli Zaretskii , > > emacs-devel@gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > My intention was to make other maintainers, including he who wrote it, > > aware of what was at stake. > We are aware. > > There's a very old principle in Emacs not to interfere in user set > > options. > auto-mode-alist is NOT a user option, never was. Emacs has been > tweaking its value for users' benefits for eons, and CC Mode does that > as well. > major-mode-remap-alist _is_ a user option, which is one reason why > solutions proposed back when Emacs 29 was in the works that involved > changing the value of major-mode-remap-alist were unacceptable to me. > The changes installed by Stefan don't touch major-mode-remap-alist, > probably for the same reason; instead, they introduce a new internal > variable and tweak that. > > That's what I see being violated here. > No, it is not. My decision to use C Mode rather than c-ts-mode I see as a user option exercised by me. Two days ago, that choice of mine was usurped, when Emacs decided that rather than c-mode, I really wanted c-ts-mode. The point here is we have identity theft. The symbol c-mode is the name of CC Mode's mode for C. It has no other name. The symbol belongs to CC Mode. But others have decided that c-mode is to have additional meanings, diluting its primary meaning. It is as though somebody decided that "Eli Zaretskii", rather than meaning you, meant "a generic Emacs maintainer". You would not like it. Anyhow, I see a way forward. I will amend CC Mode also to make entries in major-mode-remap-defaults. This would appear to be in the spirit of that undocumented variable. It doesn't feel ideal, though. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).