From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Installing cond* in core Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 15:26:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <868r4a6lbb.fsf@gnu.org> <868r495yo6.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12837"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 28 16:27:24 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rU747-00036T-Bj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 16:27:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rU73J-0005FT-EH; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 10:26:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rU73D-0005FB-Rd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 10:26:29 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rU73B-0000KB-S2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 10:26:27 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 53647 invoked by uid 3782); 28 Jan 2024 16:26:23 +0100 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pd953ae19.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.83.174.25]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 16:26:22 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 10227 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Jan 2024 15:26:22 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <868r495yo6.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315556 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 16:18:33 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 12:38:23 +0000 > > Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > Please drop this attitude: it is not useful. In Emacs development, > > > stuff is routinely "slipped into Emacs in the dead of the night > > > without any public discussion", for better and for worse. > > Pretending it didn't happen and failing to discuss it is not healthy for > > the project. > That's not what I said. Sorry, I misunderstood you. > > Routine bug fixes, and uncontroversial stuff is committed without > > discussion, yes. > Those aren't the cases to which I alluded. All right, most commits without commenting on emacs-devel are uncontroversial. I am aware of a few others, about which I've not been happy either. Do you find the level of such commits acceptable, or do you too wish they were discussed more? > > > I'm sure that if you examine the logs of your own changes, you will > > > see many examples of that; I know I see that in mine and in most > > > other's. > > I don't think I have ever intalled anything controversial without > > discussing it on the list. > The problem is that "controversial" is many times only evident in > retrospect. In the current case, the controversy was obvious. How can you change the meaning of the basic tokens ` and , without it being controversial? [ .... ] -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).