From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Installing cond* in core Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2024 13:38:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: <868r4a6lbb.fsf@gnu.org> <3cf3ba2d-873f-44d8-81f4-420d8954fd8e@gutov.dev> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6250"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 28 14:39:23 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rU5Nb-0001SW-Qj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 14:39:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rU5NJ-0003wQ-6Z; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 08:39:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rU5NH-0003rZ-64 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 08:39:03 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rU5NF-0004w2-00 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 08:39:02 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 24404 invoked by uid 3782); 28 Jan 2024 14:38:58 +0100 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pd953ae19.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.83.174.25]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 28 Jan 2024 14:38:58 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 5696 invoked by uid 1000); 28 Jan 2024 13:38:57 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3cf3ba2d-873f-44d8-81f4-420d8954fd8e@gutov.dev> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:315548 Archived-At: Hello, Dmitry. On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 15:02:29 +0200, Dmitry Gutov wrote: > On 28/01/2024 14:38, Alan Mackenzie wrote: > > Pretending it didn't happen and failing to discuss it is not healthy for > > the project. Routine bug fixes, and uncontroversial stuff is committed > > without discussion, yes. Otherwise we'd be doing nothing else but silly > > discussions on emacs-devel. > The addition of pcase was a boon for the project. You're missing the point. pcase has flaws, and even now, 14 years later, isn't satisfactorally documented. All you seem to be saying is that pcase is better than no pcase. I'd agree with that. But if pcase were so good, why is Richard writing a better replacement? > Its uses in particularly important areas, like bytecomp, might have been > a subject for discussion, but we don't really do that when all active > contributors to an area of code agree with the technical decision. You're being a bit vague there, but when have all active contributors to any area of code been in agreement? > And they did agree, otherwise the discussion would have had materialized > at the spot. That's not the way things happened. pcase was simply installed in Emacs, with all its faults, and then proliferated round Emacs. Where was the room for discussion? Discussion is difficult after something has already been done. If you're trying to say that pcase is better than nothing, so people use it, then I'd agree. But if you're trying to insist it's as good as it could be, I'd ask you why Richard is spending a lot of time crafting a better replacement. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).