From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Patrice Dumas Newsgroups: gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: @dircategory (Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strategic importance) Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:52:23 +0100 Message-ID: References: <8734vda9kz.fsf@yahoo.com> <5EC9A02F-DB34-48B6-BD2D-CB9E89A385D0@traductaire-libre.org> <83r0iwuek9.fsf@gnu.org> <837cknvkrx.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0iuuacz.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="2830"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , Vincent =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bela=EFche?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org To: Jean-Christophe Helary Original-X-From: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 10 21:52:51 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: gnu-help-texinfo2@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rNfZ9-0000Ny-Ff for gnu-help-texinfo2@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:52:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNfYs-0001tp-UY; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:52:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNfYq-0001tA-6Q; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:52:28 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp3-g21.free.fr ([212.27.42.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNfYm-0006Ms-Ru; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 15:52:27 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2a01:e0a:3e7:4640:41f1:2d24:687f:f12]) (Authenticated sender: pertusus@free.fr) by smtp3-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E610213F861; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 21:52:12 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=free.fr; s=smtp-20201208; t=1704919939; bh=/9v78fjUPsGy7XHTIIAbJwbnVzKTgEtXMOTlR60w94I=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=aRniY1Hf6Jh67n27TUZ1tmR4Pc2xqJ6RD4KykqsY0YOlvACDoqouP7de4B7pKZTLv 09VUz5yahj+YrwGlK50N29qHSsj/XeblENaTNEay1aoKmP+fe0BhLRzufrHlTogOij yZI359XC1U6Pp3BUSHcMEhK1I7NNoUFrhNjF+67ORlTOWK8BeHq61agyqkGTqUnP0M aAk6abAfo4qtixhFZj14Zisl91RJ0Rr4gyfelO2MsnM67VUF3bHdFdXh8Gbjp4//5y wwFv1dcLox2D2rpV5S7VTqrD1BLc8Lai/zpFgTpatVIxUFnYGxyvi5R6mkusXCieMe g9p5/owsKI/Xw== Mail-Followup-To: Patrice Dumas , Jean-Christophe Helary , Eli Zaretskii , Stefan Kangas , Vincent =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bela=EFche?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, help-texinfo@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.27.42.3; envelope-from=pertusus@free.fr; helo=smtp3-g21.free.fr X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-texinfo@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the Texinfo documentation system List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-texinfo-bounces+gnu-help-texinfo2=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.comp.tex.texinfo.general:3398 gmane.emacs.devel:314826 Archived-At: On Sat, Jan 06, 2024 at 09:37:03AM +0000, Jean-Christophe Helary wrote: > > > But, for such links to work, we > > need a facility to tell the Info reader that when a link goes to a > > manual named FOO.info, it should visit FOO-LANG.info instead. Again, > > something that involves a change in Texinfo and in all Info readers. > > What are the practical cases where translating nodes would be a problem? > > 1. I read a manual in English, there is a link with a node in English, > it directs to the other English manual. > > It’s the expected behaviour. > > 2. I read a manual in French, there is a link with a node in English, > it directs to the other English manual. > > If the other manual exists in French, it is not the proper behaviour. > > 3. I read a manual in French, there is a link with a node in French, it > directs to the other French manual. > > If the other manual exists in French, it is the proper behaviour. > > If it does not, we should have an error message that informs the reader > that the manual is not translated. This is already the current behaviour, though it is not possible to know if the node name is incorrect or untranslated, and I do not think that we should do something special here. In any case, if a target manual is not yet translated, to me it is the responsibility of the translator of amnual linking to it to either link to the english manual, or to translate the node name in @ref even though it won't lead to an existing manual and the name may need to be changed later on to match with the actual name used in the translated manual. To me both case could make sense depending on many criteria, such as whether readers are likely to read english, whether manuals are being translated... In any case, I don't see any reason to do any automatic redirection in the Info reader, it should remain simple and be the translators/writers responsibilities. Another reason is that it would not be possible to do the same in HTML, as in HTML it is not possible to check if the target exists. -- Pat