From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Brand new clojure support in Emacs ;-) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2023 10:13:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <835y4ucrz3.fsf@gnu.org> <831qficgin.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttsehwab.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87fs3x6ge7.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8cthmzl.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87a5u56atj.fsf@gmail.com> <87r0nhhgb5.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87y1hp3pjm.fsf@gmail.com> <9b605d5a-3186-4764-b43d-854a68d04d0e@app.fastmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="37489"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?= , Danny Freeman , Eli Zaretskii , Dmitry Gutov , Richard Stallman , Emacs Devel To: Bozhidar Batsov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 03 12:14:13 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qck7R-0009af-HH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:14:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qck6n-0004hi-VQ; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 06:13:33 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qck6m-0004hL-Dm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 06:13:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.muc.de ([193.149.48.3]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qck6i-0007a8-FU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 06:13:31 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 55639 invoked by uid 3782); 3 Sep 2023 12:13:25 +0200 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=muc.de; i=@muc.de; q=dns/txt; s=default; t=1693736005; h=date : to : cc : subject : message-id : references : mime-version : content-type : in-reply-to : from : from; bh=MxTFhhAZXnq9QJPNVa1TEhzxKhgnyFkdhckbRC+1VkI=; b=ipLc9HYBOZgr1C0j+aT9+R7hxeSt2F7UgKUmHR3pksyg/Gb9Icj9GXZN6FGnE+XECQ5GU ivR0IsijTihp1RPss8D2UXBFV7g+QU/Ikfx48K3Nq6YddmMi4qClzvbw1k5Lw4/7uRIVxFd 61dq+zA85+tL/jwKe4cTMtelTj9WUf6q3GgI4wOwh8XZJ3bWC7MeExz+Ot3lEyhgfZqC03s qCx6AfSBpVfCUC4cxKfgmC65DYrX6D5o2MVunfXYHNQgdoJvCwT+cl9SkzeOO21fHe335vH 2UtcTsYcMAl6VJ9stgBTFH0b2l/OQ/xBcBEXKZxfqUmz6VNp2kXrJCsQ0Fgw== Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe157eb.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.87.235]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sun, 03 Sep 2023 12:13:23 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 3047 invoked by uid 1000); 3 Sep 2023 10:13:22 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9b605d5a-3186-4764-b43d-854a68d04d0e@app.fastmail.com> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.3; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309959 Archived-At: Hello, Bozhidar. On Sun, Sep 03, 2023 at 10:33:57 +0200, Bozhidar Batsov wrote: > Hi everyone! > I had decided at first to ignore this thread, given I'm on vacation > this week, but its overall tone and directly really forced me to write > something here. (I have to admit I'm extremely upset while writing this > email) I, personally, can understand that. I have been dismayed by some of the posts posted by my colleagues on Emacs in the last week or two. Although I'm replying to you, the sentiments in this post are really intended for my fellow hackers on emacs-devel. Over the last years your team has produced a well liked and well used Clojure mode for Emacs. This has involved setting up and maintaining a development system, which is no small job in itself. You don't want to disturb this system by integrating clojure-mode into the Emacs core or even GNU ELPA. I don't fully understand the reasons in detail, but I do see it's not up to me, as it's not me who's put in all the work over the years. I don't understand why we need to have a Clojure mode in the Emacs core, particularly one which would be intended to compete with the existing clojure-mode. It seems to me to be entirely within the spirit of free software for independent projects such as clojure-mode to spring up and flourish outside the control and direction of the central project. And even if Emacs were to develop its own competing Clojure mode (which I say it should not), it MUST have a name of its own and not create confusion by re-using name of the existing mode. Such reuse would also not be displaying respect for the achievements of your team. We have a precedent here, with two perl modes in Emacs. One is called perl-mode, the other cperl-mode. As far as I'm aware, they don't get confused. I hope all these matters can get settled satisfactorally in the coming days. But, whatever, please enjoy the rest of your holiday! -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).