From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Eric S. Raymond" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Shrinking the C core Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2023 12:11:21 -0400 Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs Message-ID: References: <20230809094655.793FC18A4654@snark.thyrsus.com> <83y1ikl6yo.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: esr@thyrsus.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38037"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 09 18:12:20 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qTlnI-0009jG-L9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 09 Aug 2023 18:12:20 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qTlmQ-0004wi-35; Wed, 09 Aug 2023 12:11:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qTlmO-0004th-NW for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 09 Aug 2023 12:11:24 -0400 Original-Received: from thyrsus.com ([71.162.243.5] helo=snark.thyrsus.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qTlmM-0002JO-W5; Wed, 09 Aug 2023 12:11:24 -0400 Original-Received: by snark.thyrsus.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AEFE318A2124; Wed, 9 Aug 2023 12:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83y1ikl6yo.fsf@gnu.org> X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy Received-SPF: pass client-ip=71.162.243.5; envelope-from=esr@thyrsus.com; helo=snark.thyrsus.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:308483 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii : > For veteran and stable code such as this one, we should not rewrite > them in Lisp just because we can. We should have much more serious > and good reasons for such changes. Well, that's awkward. I think I have a serious and good reason to shrink the core as much as possible, but it's one I'm not yet prepared to talk about because I don't want to over-promise. I was hoping I could sneak up on it with a bunch of safe, small changes. > Even the simple change you did a few days ago broke the build > on one system and raised a couple of issues some of which are not yet > resolved, and others we don't even have a good way of resolving except > by bracing for bug reports. I want to understand the failure better, then, so I can avoid repeating it. What build broke, and how? What remaining issues are there? (I did of course test te chane with a make bootstrap.) > So please let's not do that without such reasons. Noted. -- Eric S. Raymond