Remove auctex from emacs

Remove auctex from emacs

[uzibalqa]

How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[Pankaj Jangid]

uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me> writes:

> How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?

M-x package-delete

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, September 11th, 2022 at 8:22 PM, Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> wrote:


> uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me writes:
> 
> > How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?
> 
> 
> M-x package-delete

No chance in hell.  Even after removing with "M-x package-delete", files still get
loaded with "LaTeX-mode".

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[Pankaj Jangid]

uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me> writes:

> ------- Original Message -------
> On Sunday, September 11th, 2022 at 8:22 PM, Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> wrote:
>
>
>> uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me writes:
>> 
>> > How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and
>> > latex-mode ?
>> 
>> 
>> M-x package-delete
>
> No chance in hell.  Even after removing with "M-x package-delete",
> files still get loaded with "LaTeX-mode".

The dependencies will not be uninstalled with "package-delete". For that
you need "package-autoremove" after "package-delete".

This will work only if you have not explicitly installed the
dependencies.

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, September 12th, 2022 at 4:21 AM, Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> wrote:


> uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me writes:
> 
> > ------- Original Message -------
> > On Sunday, September 11th, 2022 at 8:22 PM, Pankaj Jangid pankaj@codeisgreat.org wrote:
> > 
> > > uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me writes:
> > > 
> > > > How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and
> > > > latex-mode ?
> > > 
> > > M-x package-delete
> > 
> > No chance in hell. Even after removing with "M-x package-delete",
> > files still get loaded with "LaTeX-mode".
> 
> 
> The dependencies will not be uninstalled with "package-delete". For that
> you need "package-autoremove" after "package-delete".
> 
> This will work only if you have not explicitly installed the
> dependencies.

"package-autoremove" says "nothing to remove".

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[Jean Louis]

* uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me> [2022-09-11 22:20]:
> How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?

You do not need to remove it.

{M-x customize-varable RET tex-default-mode RET}

And change it to latex-mode or tex-mode

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, September 11th, 2022 at 8:24 PM, Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> wrote:


> * uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me [2022-09-11 22:20]:
> 
> > How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?
> 
> 
> You do not need to remove it.
> 
> {M-x customize-varable RET tex-default-mode RET}
> 
> And change it to latex-mode or tex-mode
> 
> --
> Jean

It is latex-mode my friend.

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[Jean Louis]

* uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me> [2022-09-12 00:09]:
> 
> It is latex-mode my friend.

;;; Commentary:

;; This can be used for starting up AUCTeX.  The following somewhat
;; strange trick causes tex-site.el to be loaded in a way that can be
;; safely undone using (unload-feature 'tex-site).

-- 
Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Sunday, September 11th, 2022 at 9:34 PM, Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> wrote:


> * uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me [2022-09-12 00:09]:
> 
> > It is latex-mode my friend.
> 
> 
> ;;; Commentary:
> 
> ;; This can be used for starting up AUCTeX. The following somewhat
> ;; strange trick causes tex-site.el to be loaded in a way that can be
> ;; safely undone using (unload-feature 'tex-site).
> 
> --
> Jean

It is more like shitty-mode !

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2022-09-11, at 21:19, uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me> wrote:

> How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?

Out of curiosity: why?  Is there anything that AUCTeX doesn't do that
the built-in tex-mode/latex-mode does?  I never used the built-in mode,
but I read its documentation (many years ago), and it seems rather
simplistic.  OTOH, I used AUCTeX for many, many years (at least 15 years
- now I rarely do anything in (La)TeX), and it has always served me well
(maybe apart from rather poor ConTeXt support, idk if that improved -
but it still wasn't very bad).

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, September 12th, 2022 at 7:16 AM, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:


> On 2022-09-11, at 21:19, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
> 
> > How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?
> 
> 
> Out of curiosity: why? Is there anything that AUCTeX doesn't do that
> the built-in tex-mode/latex-mode does? I never used the built-in mode,
> but I read its documentation (many years ago), and it seems rather
> simplistic. OTOH, I used AUCTeX for many, many years (at least 15 years
> - now I rarely do anything in (La)TeX), and it has always served me well
> (maybe apart from rather poor ConTeXt support, idk if that improved -
> but it still wasn't very bad).
> 
> Best,

Whatever it is, major-modes are not supposed to work that way.

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2022-09-12, at 12:01, uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me> wrote:

> ------- Original Message -------
> On Monday, September 12th, 2022 at 7:16 AM, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>
>
>> On 2022-09-11, at 21:19, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
>> 
>> > How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?
>> 
>> 
>> Out of curiosity: why? Is there anything that AUCTeX doesn't do that
>> the built-in tex-mode/latex-mode does? I never used the built-in mode,
>> but I read its documentation (many years ago), and it seems rather
>> simplistic. OTOH, I used AUCTeX for many, many years (at least 15 years
>> - now I rarely do anything in (La)TeX), and it has always served me well
>> (maybe apart from rather poor ConTeXt support, idk if that improved -
>> but it still wasn't very bad).
>> 
>> Best,
>
> Whatever it is, major-modes are not supposed to work that way.

Not sure what do you mean.  Worked for me for well over a decade.
I assume it might bother you that it doesn't seem to have an entry in
`auto-mode-alist' – but that makes sense given that the same file name
pattern ("\\.tex$") corresponds to several modes (plain
TeX/LaTeX/ConTeXt/possible others, like AMSTeX).  You could argue that
there should be one major AUCTeX mode and plain TeX/LaTeX/etc. minor
modes – but it is what it is, and I guess it's way too late to change
that.

Probably `magic-mode-alist' could help – but I have a hunch that it's
more recent than AUCTeX' mechanism for major mode selection.  (It was
defined in Emacs 22.1 – I'm 99% sure AUCTeX was around much earlier.
I seem to vaguely recollect the first Emacs version I used to be 21
(±1), and I almost certainly attended a presentation about AUCTeX before
I even used Emacs.)

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, September 12th, 2022 at 12:16 PM, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:


> On 2022-09-12, at 12:01, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
> 
> > ------- Original Message -------
> > On Monday, September 12th, 2022 at 7:16 AM, Marcin Borkowski mbork@mbork.pl wrote:
> > 
> > > On 2022-09-11, at 21:19, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
> > > 
> > > > How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?
> > > 
> > > Out of curiosity: why? Is there anything that AUCTeX doesn't do that
> > > the built-in tex-mode/latex-mode does? I never used the built-in mode,
> > > but I read its documentation (many years ago), and it seems rather
> > > simplistic. OTOH, I used AUCTeX for many, many years (at least 15 years
> > > - now I rarely do anything in (La)TeX), and it has always served me well
> > > (maybe apart from rather poor ConTeXt support, idk if that improved -
> > > but it still wasn't very bad).
> > > 
> > > Best,
> > 
> > Whatever it is, major-modes are not supposed to work that way.
> 
> 
> Not sure what do you mean. Worked for me for well over a decade.
> I assume it might bother you that it doesn't seem to have an entry in
> `auto-mode-alist' – but that makes sense given that the same file name pattern ("\\\\.tex$") corresponds to several modes (plain TeX/LaTeX/ConTeXt/possible others, like AMSTeX). You could argue that there should be one major AUCTeX mode and plain TeX/LaTeX/etc. minor modes – but it is what it is, and I guess it's way too late to change that. Probably` magic-mode-alist' could help – but I have a hunch that it's
> more recent than AUCTeX' mechanism for major mode selection. (It was
> defined in Emacs 22.1 – I'm 99% sure AUCTeX was around much earlier.
> I seem to vaguely recollect the first Emacs version I used to be 21
> (±1), and I almost certainly attended a presentation about AUCTeX before
> I even used Emacs.)
 
There are too many tex and latex packages today, making the original design quite inadequate, 
particularly with the emergence of cdlatex.

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2022-09-12, at 15:18, uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me> wrote:

> ------- Original Message -------
> On Monday, September 12th, 2022 at 12:16 PM, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:
>
>
>> On 2022-09-12, at 12:01, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
>>
>> > ------- Original Message -------
>> > On Monday, September 12th, 2022 at 7:16 AM, Marcin Borkowski mbork@mbork.pl wrote:
>> >
>> > > On 2022-09-11, at 21:19, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?
>> > >
>> > > Out of curiosity: why? Is there anything that AUCTeX doesn't do that
>> > > the built-in tex-mode/latex-mode does? I never used the built-in mode,
>> > > but I read its documentation (many years ago), and it seems rather
>> > > simplistic. OTOH, I used AUCTeX for many, many years (at least 15 years
>> > > - now I rarely do anything in (La)TeX), and it has always served me well
>> > > (maybe apart from rather poor ConTeXt support, idk if that improved -
>> > > but it still wasn't very bad).
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> >
>> > Whatever it is, major-modes are not supposed to work that way.
>>
>>
>> Not sure what do you mean. Worked for me for well over a decade.
>> I assume it might bother you that it doesn't seem to have an entry in
>> `auto-mode-alist' – but that makes sense given that the same file name pattern ("\\\\.tex$") corresponds to several modes (plain TeX/LaTeX/ConTeXt/possible others, like AMSTeX). You could argue that there should be one major AUCTeX mode and plain TeX/LaTeX/etc. minor modes – but it is what it is, and I guess it's way too late to change that. Probably` magic-mode-alist' could help – but I have a hunch that it's
>> more recent than AUCTeX' mechanism for major mode selection. (It was
>> defined in Emacs 22.1 – I'm 99% sure AUCTeX was around much earlier.
>> I seem to vaguely recollect the first Emacs version I used to be 21
>> (±1), and I almost certainly attended a presentation about AUCTeX before
>> I even used Emacs.)
>
> There are too many tex and latex packages today, making the original design quite inadequate,
> particularly with the emergence of cdlatex.

Interesting.  I've been using AUCTeX _a lot_ for many years until about
2018, when I left academia.  Since then I've been using it less often,
but I still do from time to time.  I didn't notice any major
inadequacies (there are - and always have been - minor annoyances).
What are the problems you mean?

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, September 19th, 2022 at 5:15 PM, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:


> On 2022-09-12, at 15:18, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
> 
> > ------- Original Message -------
> > On Monday, September 12th, 2022 at 12:16 PM, Marcin Borkowski mbork@mbork.pl wrote:
> > 
> > > On 2022-09-12, at 12:01, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
> > > 
> > > > ------- Original Message -------
> > > > On Monday, September 12th, 2022 at 7:16 AM, Marcin Borkowski mbork@mbork.pl wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > On 2022-09-11, at 21:19, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > How can remove auctex from emacs so that i can use tex-mode and latex-mode ?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Out of curiosity: why? Is there anything that AUCTeX doesn't do that
> > > > > the built-in tex-mode/latex-mode does? I never used the built-in mode,
> > > > > but I read its documentation (many years ago), and it seems rather
> > > > > simplistic. OTOH, I used AUCTeX for many, many years (at least 15 years
> > > > > - now I rarely do anything in (La)TeX), and it has always served me well
> > > > > (maybe apart from rather poor ConTeXt support, idk if that improved -
> > > > > but it still wasn't very bad).
> > > > > 
> > > > > Best,
> > > > 
> > > > Whatever it is, major-modes are not supposed to work that way.
> > > 
> > > Not sure what do you mean. Worked for me for well over a decade.

> > > I assume it might bother you that it doesn't seem to have an entry in
> > > `auto-mode-alist' – but that makes sense given that the same file name pattern ("\\\\\\\\.tex$") 
> > > corresponds to several modes (plain TeX/LaTeX/ConTeXt/possible others, like AMSTeX). 

Correct, that it disregards `auto-mode-alist'.

> > > You could argue that there should be one major AUCTeX mode and plain TeX/LaTeX/etc. minor
> > > modes – 

As there can be many modes, one mode should not take over any other mode.

> > > but it is what it is, and I guess it's way too late to change that. 

This is where we disagree.  There is never a time to say it is too late to change.
When it is time to change, the change should be made to happen.

Probably` magic-mode-alist' could help – but I have a hunch that it's
> > > more recent than AUCTeX' mechanism for major mode selection. (It was
> > > defined in Emacs 22.1 – I'm 99% sure AUCTeX was around much earlier.
> > > I seem to vaguely recollect the first Emacs version I used to be 21
> > > (±1), and I almost certainly attended a presentation about AUCTeX before
> > > I even used Emacs.)
> > 
> > There are too many tex and latex packages today, making the original design quite inadequate,
> > particularly with the emergence of cdlatex.
> 
> 
> Interesting. I've been using AUCTeX a lot for many years until about
> 2018, when I left academia. Since then I've been using it less often,
> but I still do from time to time. I didn't notice any major
> inadequacies (there are - and always have been - minor annoyances).
> What are the problems you mean?
> 
> Best,
> 
> --
> Marcin Borkowski
> http://mbork.pl

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2022-09-19, at 19:35, uzibalqa <uzibalqa@proton.me> wrote:

>> > > Not sure what do you mean. Worked for me for well over a decade.
>
>> > > I assume it might bother you that it doesn't seem to have an entry in
>> > > `auto-mode-alist' – but that makes sense given that the same file name pattern ("\\\\\\\\.tex$") 
>> > > corresponds to several modes (plain TeX/LaTeX/ConTeXt/possible others, like AMSTeX). 
>
> Correct, that it disregards `auto-mode-alist'.
>
>> > > You could argue that there should be one major AUCTeX mode and plain TeX/LaTeX/etc. minor
>> > > modes – 
>
> As there can be many modes, one mode should not take over any other mode.

I didn't understand this.

>> > > but it is what it is, and I guess it's way too late to change that. 
>
> This is where we disagree.  There is never a time to say it is too late to change.
> When it is time to change, the change should be made to happen.

Well, it is probably a major overhaul of the whole codebase.  Which
means you need substantial effort for little gain (in the sense that
most users - or so I think - are satisfied with the current approach).
Such major changes are much easier when the codebase is young, hence my
"too late" comment.

Perhaps if you make a compelling argument for such a change on the
AUCTeX mailing list, possibly volunteering to help with that effort, you
might succeed.  Personally, I think that the time would be better spent
elsewhere, but this may be because I didn't think about this issue
deeply enough and cannot see too many disadvantages of the status quo.
Change my mind! ;-)

Best,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[Emanuel Berg]

Marcin Borkowski wrote:

> Perhaps if you make a compelling argument for such a change
> on the AUCTeX mailing list, possibly volunteering to help
> with that effort, you might succeed. Personally, I think
> that the time would be better spent elsewhere, but this may
> be because I didn't think about this issue deeply enough and
> cannot see too many disadvantages of the status quo.
> Change my mind! ;-)

Weren't there two LaTeX modes and the difference was one was
a LaTeX IDE with packs and stuff and the other was just a mode
with font lock, navigation etc for LaTeX as a language?

-- 
underground experts united
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Remove auctex from emacs

[uzibalqa]

------- Original Message -------
On Tuesday, September 20th, 2022 at 4:29 PM, Marcin Borkowski <mbork@mbork.pl> wrote:


> On 2022-09-19, at 19:35, uzibalqa uzibalqa@proton.me wrote:
> 
> > > > > Not sure what do you mean. Worked for me for well over a decade.
> > 
> > > > > I assume it might bother you that it doesn't seem to have an entry in
> > > > > `auto-mode-alist' – but that makes sense given that the same file name pattern ("\\\\\\\\.tex$")
> > > > > corresponds to several modes (plain TeX/LaTeX/ConTeXt/possible others, like AMSTeX).
> > 
> > Correct, that it disregards `auto-mode-alist'.
> > 
> > > > > You could argue that there should be one major AUCTeX mode and plain TeX/LaTeX/etc. minor
> > > > > modes –
> > 
> > As there can be many modes, one mode should not take over any other mode.
> 
> 
> I didn't understand this.
> 
> > > > > but it is what it is, and I guess it's way too late to change that.
> > 
> > This is where we disagree. There is never a time to say it is too late to change.
> > When it is time to change, the change should be made to happen.
 
> Well, it is probably a major overhaul of the whole codebase. Which
> means you need substantial effort for little gain (in the sense that
> most users - or so I think - are satisfied with the current approach).
> Such major changes are much easier when the codebase is young, hence my
> "too late" comment.
 
Have seen that some things have started to happen.  Some possibilities
for organisation without a full blown major overhaul.  But which could 
see some breakages. 

> Perhaps if you make a compelling argument for such a change on the
> AUCTeX mailing list, possibly volunteering to help with that effort, you
> might succeed. Personally, I think that the time would be better spent
> elsewhere, but this may be because I didn't think about this issue
> deeply enough and cannot see too many disadvantages of the status quo.
> Change my mind! ;-)

There exists the intention to work on things.  But was looking forward to 
some focused adjustments from others who would be aware of the details
and what would be considered reasonable to clean up.