Re: no to war in Ukraine

[Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>]

* Alexandre Garreau <galex-713@galex-713.eu> [2022-02-27 14:52]:
> And I believe (if that can help) in the end the main and maybe
> almost only responsible is Putin, everyone else was lied to or
> threatened.

I don't think so. Political situation in Ukraine is more complicated
then what you state. It would be good if we could just accuse Putin to
be the cause. But it is not cause.

You have to review history of Ukraine and how Germany installed
organizations back in time, history of anti-semitism in Ukraine,
including history of Ukrainian Nazism. Since Germany wanted to
overthrow emperor of Russia back in time, Ukraine is used by western
forces as place for fighting. People have been suffering in that area
for decades while politicians in other countries only care to
influence Russia through conflicts in Ukraina.

I do not condone ANY war. I am against any wars.

> That’s likely right, but asking people sacrificing to people far
> away is difficult, especially when a such war would have been
> difficult to predict in advance, and totally ununderstandable once
> it happened… it’s totally useless shit… Putin has just got mad.

It was maybe for you individually difficult to predict. It was planned
and manipulated since many years by West in order to minimize power of
East. Ukrainian Nazis have been sponsored by US congress. Why would US
congress sponsor Ukrainian Nazis? Of course with purpose to manipulate
political situations in other countries. 

I see and take US presidents, US congress, Western politicians and
Putin; all together; and Ukrainian politicians and their neglect of
legality in their own country as accountable for what is going on in
Ukraine, as they have made that scenario. 

More references for people to get better understanding of recent
history in Ukraine:

US Congress stops funding for Ukraine's war-criminal, neo-Nazi Azov Battalion -- Puppet Masters -- Sott.net
https://www.sott.net/article/350064-US-Congress-stops-funding-for-Ukraines-war-criminal-neo-Nazi-Azov-Battalion

The Terrorists Among US11 Azov Battalion and American Congressional Support | The Vineyard of the Saker
https://thesaker.is/the-terrorists-among-us11-azov-battalion-and-american-congressional-support/

Canadian Armed Forces providing military training to Ukrainian neo-Nazis - World Socialist Web Site
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2021/12/03/uknz-d03.html

Praise Of Ukrainian Neo-Nazi Battalion Given Green Light By Facebook: Intercept | ZeroHedge
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/praise-ukrainian-neo-nazi-battalion-given-green-light-facebook-intercept

Azov Battalion - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion

Collaboration in German-occupied Ukraine - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collaboration_in_German-occupied_Ukraine#Ukrainian_National_Committee

Commentary: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem | Reuters
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary-idUSKBN1GV2TY

> Also I believe to suffer standing for freedom is somewhat easier
> psychologically than sitting in despair giving up… Ukrainians are
> showing great pride and attachment to their freedom, although in
> front of nato lack of help it would have been more logical to
> surrender in front of a higher power…

Majority of Ukrainians DO NOT WANT criminals such as terrorists of
Azov Battalion operating in their country. Thus "freedom" is related
to peace, and that peace has been sabotaged over and over again from
inside of Ukraine.

Ukraine must stop ongoing abuses and war crimes by pro-Ukrainian volunteer forces - Amnesty International
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/09/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-crimes-pro-ukrainian-volunteer-forces/

When you look at the situation which is taking place without looking
into history and background, then of course one will come to such
conclusions related to solidarity, freedom, Puting is bad and so
on. That is all logical.

But if you look into history and information on what is really going
on and which crime have been committed in Ukraine by those Neo-Nazis
and that their justice system does not protect people -- then one can
understand that other country such as Russia comes to help. I do not
condone neither approve that kind of "help" -- but what is sure is
that Western countries approved Neo-Nazis, supported them financially
with the help to destabilize Russia, with the intend to install NATO
in Ukraine; and Western politicians DID NOTHING to help victims of
Neo-Nazis. Amnesty International cannot do it alone. 

Now Putin comes to "save people" -- what is there so much different
than what US did in Iraq, Syria, Vietnam, and many other countries?

I do not condone war, I am for peace. But when you reason, then take
all facts in consideration.

> i don’t understand why nato doesn’t take the risk being bombed to
> help ukrainians.  

Russia as country does not attack Ukrainians. Definitely not. There
are innocent victims and I do not approve of that. War is the worse
insanity on the planet. How I see the situation, Russia is "helping"
the fellow new nation -- and it seem to me not possible that Russian
military wants to attack Ukrainian people as such; they have their
targets and this I understand, but Russia and Ukraine are so much
connected, I could even say they are so much similar to each other and
share culture and history. Their families are intertwined. I never was
thinking of Ukrainian people as being so much different from
Russians. It is very hard for me to think that "Russia" attacks
"Ukrainian" for reasons of being Ukrainian. 

What I see is that Russia is concerned for crimes in Ukraine not being
handled by Ukrainian themselves; now they have military intervention.

That Uganda has sent recently troops in Congo to fight rebels is very
similar situation; one could simply say that Uganda occupied parts of
Congo with purpose to exterminate rebels; and world is not talking
about it. But why? Because it does not help the Western politics;
Russia is not close to Congo; there is no purpose for US and NATO to
get into it. There is no benefit neither interest. Though situation is
quite similar. And people in Congo welcome Ugandan military
intervention, they have got enough of terrorism.

So it is in Ukraine, there are thousands of people in Ukraine
welcoming the intervention and fight against internal terrorism.

> What should be needed would be to send material help there, money,
> maybe even to rob the states and rich in each country for that, and
> for russians to block anything materially providing for russian army
> or state controlled medias…

Law and order is what is needed. Ukrainian politicians internally have
to commit to law and order, to respect human rights without
discrimination. Would that be enacted, there would be no military
intervention now.

And I repeat, I am against any war, and I like Russians and Ukrainian
equally; and any refugee is free to ask me for accommodation.

Jean

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