* (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil @ 2022-02-04 12:47 Jean Louis 2022-02-04 13:20 ` tomas 2022-02-04 15:19 ` [External] : " Drew Adams 0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Jean Louis @ 2022-02-04 12:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Help GNU Emacs (require 'thingatpt) 123 ^ when I place cursor there under number 2, and evaluate (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) I get result nil. I am expecting to get the bounds. When I evaluate (thing-at-point 'number) then I get see result being 123. pppppppppp Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 12:47 (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil Jean Louis @ 2022-02-04 13:20 ` tomas 2022-02-04 14:20 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-04 14:41 ` Robert Pluim 2022-02-04 15:19 ` [External] : " Drew Adams 1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: tomas @ 2022-02-04 13:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 745 bytes --] On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 03:47:19PM +0300, Jean Louis wrote: > > (require 'thingatpt) > > 123 > ^ > > when I place cursor there under number 2, and > evaluate (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) I get result nil. I > am expecting to get the bounds. > > When I evaluate (thing-at-point 'number) then I get see result being 123. Note that number isn't among the things mentioned in the function doc of `bounds-of-thing-at-point'. It is, however in that of `thing-at-point'. So the behaviour you describe is surprising, but it is documented :) Perhaps both functions might want to get reconciled with each others. But perhaps there is a deeper reason their "things" lists differ. Cheers -- t [-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 195 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 13:20 ` tomas @ 2022-02-04 14:20 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-04 14:41 ` Robert Pluim 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2022-02-04 14:20 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs tomas wrote: > Note that number isn't among the things mentioned in the > function doc of `bounds-of-thing-at-point'. It is, however > in that of `thing-at-point'. Bug. It doesn't exist - but it should - so it returns nil ... This is what happens when/if you manually have to give data that are the same same, twice. Only input it once, then add 2 or as many references are called for to that data ... > So the behaviour you describe is surprising, but it is > documented :) Anyway the docstring also says: See the file ‘thingatpt.el’ for documentation on how to define a valid THING. But that isn't even a clickable button. It should be called `thing-at-point' BTW. That looks like something out of C or Python. > Perhaps both functions might want to get reconciled with > each others. But perhaps there is a deeper reason their > "things" lists differ. *thumbs-down* -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 13:20 ` tomas 2022-02-04 14:20 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2022-02-04 14:41 ` Robert Pluim 2022-02-04 14:50 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-04 21:29 ` [External] : " Drew Adams 1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Robert Pluim @ 2022-02-04 14:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: tomas; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs >>>>> On Fri, 4 Feb 2022 14:20:47 +0100, <tomas@tuxteam.de> said: tomas> On Fri, Feb 04, 2022 at 03:47:19PM +0300, Jean Louis wrote: >> >> (require 'thingatpt) >> >> 123 >> ^ >> >> when I place cursor there under number 2, and >> evaluate (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) I get result nil. I >> am expecting to get the bounds. >> >> When I evaluate (thing-at-point 'number) then I get see result being 123. tomas> Note that number isn't among the things mentioned in the function doc of tomas> `bounds-of-thing-at-point'. It is, however in that of `thing-at-point'. tomas> So the behaviour you describe is surprising, but it is documented :) tomas> Perhaps both functions might want to get reconciled with each others. tomas> But perhaps there is a deeper reason their "things" lists differ. I think it just means that nobody has implemented `bounds-of-thing-at-point' for 'number. Patches welcome :-) Robert -- ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 14:41 ` Robert Pluim @ 2022-02-04 14:50 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-04 21:29 ` [External] : " Drew Adams 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2022-02-04 14:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Robert Pluim wrote: > I think it just means that nobody has implemented > `bounds-of-thing-at-point' for 'number. Patches welcome :-) Worse than forgetting to implement the same thing twice is ... implementing the same thing twice. Hey, look who's talking, what about _saying_ the same thing twice? Are you kidding, just two times, I take it!! <euphoria> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcnWysA9gxo -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : Re: (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 14:41 ` Robert Pluim 2022-02-04 14:50 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2022-02-04 21:29 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-06 6:12 ` Jean Louis 2022-02-06 8:43 ` Drew Adams 1 sibling, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-04 21:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Robert Pluim, tomas@tuxteam.de; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > I think it just means that nobody has implemented > `bounds-of-thing-at-point' for 'number. Patches welcome :-) I don't think it means that. Here's a definition. Add it to thingatpt.el, if you really believe it's welcome. (This isn't be the first time this and similar have been offered.) Just drop the `tap-' prefix in both places. (defun tap-bounds-of-number-at-point () "Return the bounds of the number represented by the numeral at point. Return nil if none is found." (and (number-at-point) (tap-bounds-of-thing-at-point 'sexp))) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: [External] : Re: (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 21:29 ` [External] : " Drew Adams @ 2022-02-06 6:12 ` Jean Louis 2022-02-06 8:44 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-06 8:43 ` Drew Adams 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Jean Louis @ 2022-02-06 6:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams; +Cc: Robert Pluim, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org * Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> [2022-02-05 00:33]: > > I think it just means that nobody has implemented > > `bounds-of-thing-at-point' for 'number. Patches welcome :-) > > I don't think it means that. Here's a definition. > Add it to thingatpt.el, if you really believe it's > welcome. (This isn't be the first time this and > similar have been offered.) What was the reason why the library is not included, or was it maybe rejected, to improve the built-in thingatpt.el? -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : Re: (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-06 6:12 ` Jean Louis @ 2022-02-06 8:44 ` Drew Adams 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-06 8:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jean Louis; +Cc: Robert Pluim, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > What was the reason why the library is not included, > or was it maybe rejected, to improve the built-in > thingatpt.el? It wasn't wanted. And in particular the fix to return nil when there's no such thing at point but there is such a thing at (1- point) wasn't wanted. The bug for that is bug #9300: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=9300 If someone uses thing-at-point only to get a default value then they might not care that it's bugged, and they might insist that it's good that it returns a thing when there's no thing at point - more chance to get a default value. But the bug of returning non-nil when there's no thing at point makes other uses of thing-at-point impossible. With that bug you have only the forward/backward commands, but no way to define zones of text that correspond to the presence of things. With that bug you can't have a workable notion of next- or previous-thing. With Isearch+ you can search the text of things (sexps, lists, defuns, lines, pages, sentences, file names, strings, comments, xml/html elements, symbols,...) This means search within THING search contexts. Search through the zones of text that correspond to a given kind of thing. Or the complement: search the contexts outside the things. As mentioned in bug #9300, for that Isearch+ code to work also for vanilla thingatpt.el, it needs a tweak to compensate for the off-by-one bug that returns the thing at (1- point) when there's no thing at point. I put it this way in bug #21391: I really disagree with what seems to be your view of thingatpt.el functionality. I disagreed with it strongly in the context of bug #9300, where you were the lone voice proclaiming it. You apparently view the only use of this functionality as returning a string near (not at) point that can be used as an input default value. thingatpt.el is much more than that. It is very important that it be able to be used to test whether there (really) is a given THING _at_ point (not just somewhere near point). ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : Re: (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 21:29 ` [External] : " Drew Adams 2022-02-06 6:12 ` Jean Louis @ 2022-02-06 8:43 ` Drew Adams 1 sibling, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-06 8:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams, Robert Pluim, tomas@tuxteam.de; +Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org > > I think it just means that nobody has implemented > > `bounds-of-thing-at-point' for 'number. Patches welcome :-) > > I don't think it means that. Here's a definition. > Add it to thingatpt.el, if you really believe it's > welcome. (This isn't be the first time this and > similar have been offered.) > > Just drop the `tap-' prefix in both places. > > (defun tap-bounds-of-number-at-point () > "Return the bounds of the number represented by the numeral at point. > Return nil if none is found." > (and (number-at-point) > (tap-bounds-of-thing-at-point 'sexp))) Apropos - I offered exactly that definition in the context of bug #21391 (I'd forgotten that I did): https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=21391#136 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 12:47 (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil Jean Louis 2022-02-04 13:20 ` tomas @ 2022-02-04 15:19 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-04 15:35 ` Jean Louis 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-04 15:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jean Louis, Help GNU Emacs > (require 'thingatpt) > 123 > ^ > when I place cursor there under number 2, and evaluate > (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) I get result nil. > I am expecting to get the bounds. > > When I evaluate (thing-at-point 'number) then I get > see result being 123. IMO, thingatpt.el and its functions, including `bounds-of-thing-at-point', are both limited & bugged. In particular, they suffer from the assumption that their _only_ use is to grab something at point OR at point-minus-1. "Thing at point" means something better than that. It means give me the thing at point, or give me nil to tell me that there's no such thing at point. It's more useful to be able to check for the presence of a thing _at point_, and thus return nil if point only _follows_ a thing. That provides for lots of use cases beyond just trying to grab some text that's almost at point. (And for the latter use case, there are more useful DWIM functions for getting something _near_ point, i.e., within a given text "distance".) Try `thingatpt+.el'. It does THINGs right. It lets you or existing code still continue to use the bugged vanilla thing-at-point functions, by default. (But it provides additional functions for more THING cases.) Or you can replace/override the vanilla functions with those (prefix `tap-') from `thingatpt+.el', which DTRT. To do that: (eval-after-load "thingatpt" '(when (require 'thingatpt+ nil t) (tap-redefine-std-fns)) If you do that then you don't need to include the prefix `tap-' to get correct behavior for the standard functions. Not only does `(tap-)bounds-of-thing-at-point' work for numbers. You also have these number functions and their `bounds-of-' partners: tap-number-at-point-decimal tap-number-at-point-decimal-whole tap-number-at-point-hex tap-number-nearest-point ____ Description: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ThingAtPointPlus Code: https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/thingatpt%2b.el Bug 9300: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=9300 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 15:19 ` [External] : " Drew Adams @ 2022-02-04 15:35 ` Jean Louis 2022-02-04 15:50 ` Drew Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Jean Louis @ 2022-02-04 15:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams; +Cc: Help GNU Emacs * Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> [2022-02-04 18:19]: > (eval-after-load "thingatpt" > '(when (require 'thingatpt+ nil t) > (tap-redefine-std-fns)) Thanks, that is useful and I have put it in my ~/.emacs.d/init.el Then I expected this to work: (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) on 123 and it did not work. I did not look into the code. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 15:35 ` Jean Louis @ 2022-02-04 15:50 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-04 16:55 ` Jean Louis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-04 15:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jean Louis; +Cc: Help GNU Emacs > > (eval-after-load "thingatpt" > > '(when (require 'thingatpt+ nil t) > > (tap-redefine-std-fns)) > > Thanks, that is useful and I have put it in my ~/.emacs.d/init.el > > Then I expected this to work: > (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) on 123 and it did not work. I did > not look into the code. Works for me, starting from `emacs -Q' (no init file). What does `C-h f bounds-of-thing-at-point' tell you? Does it say that it's an alias for `tap-bounds-of-thing-at-point'? If not, did you actually load the library? (Put it in a dir in your `load-path'.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 15:50 ` Drew Adams @ 2022-02-04 16:55 ` Jean Louis 2022-02-04 21:29 ` Drew Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Jean Louis @ 2022-02-04 16:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams; +Cc: Help GNU Emacs * Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> [2022-02-04 18:50]: > > > (eval-after-load "thingatpt" > > > '(when (require 'thingatpt+ nil t) > > > (tap-redefine-std-fns)) > > > > Thanks, that is useful and I have put it in my ~/.emacs.d/init.el > > > > Then I expected this to work: > > (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) on 123 and it did not work. I did > > not look into the code. > > Works for me, starting from `emacs -Q' > (no init file). > > What does `C-h f bounds-of-thing-at-point' > tell you? Does it say that it's an alias > for `tap-bounds-of-thing-at-point'? bounds-of-thing-at-point is a compiled Lisp function in ‘thingatpt.el’. (bounds-of-thing-at-point THING) > If not, did you actually load the library? > (Put it in a dir in your `load-path'.) Yes, I did. And I loaded also with M-x load-library and I have directory with your scripts in my load-path So I do not get it why it is not loading and overwriting functions. After evaluating this: (tap-redefine-std-fns) I have got it to work. Just this below is not working well. (eval-after-load "thingatpt" '(when (require 'thingatpt+ nil t) (tap-redefine-std-fns)) -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 16:55 ` Jean Louis @ 2022-02-04 21:29 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-04 21:46 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-06 6:08 ` Jean Louis 0 siblings, 2 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-04 21:29 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jean Louis; +Cc: Help GNU Emacs > > What does `C-h f bounds-of-thing-at-point' > > tell you? Does it say that it's an alias > > for `tap-bounds-of-thing-at-point'? > > bounds-of-thing-at-point is a compiled Lisp function in > ‘thingatpt.el’. That means thingatpt+.el wasn't loaded. You likely need to either (1) change the file name "thingatpt" to be absolute or relative to where you're evaluating that sexp or (2) use symbol `thingatpt' instead of a string. Try the latter first. See what `C-h f eval-after-load' says about arg FILE. > > If not, did you actually load the library? > > (Put it in a dir in your `load-path'.) > > Yes, I did. And I loaded also with M-x load-library and I have > directory with your scripts in my load-path > > So I do not get it why it is not loading and overwriting functions. If you loaded it (e.g. using `load-library) then it's loaded. The reason it's not overwriting the vanilla functions is no doubt because file "thingatpt" never got loaded, so the `eval-after-load' code never got evaluated. I was probably too cryptic in writing just "thingatpt". Sorry. Hopefully it's clear now. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 21:29 ` Drew Adams @ 2022-02-04 21:46 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-05 0:54 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-06 6:08 ` Jean Louis 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-04 21:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams, Jean Louis; +Cc: Help GNU Emacs > You likely need to either (1) change the file > name "thingatpt" to be absolute or relative > to where you're evaluating that sexp or (2) > use symbol `thingatpt' instead of a string. > Try the latter first. > > See what `C-h f eval-after-load' says about > arg FILE. I've updated the Commentary of the file to make this clear - just use 'thingatpt instead of a string file name. (The library works also with old Emacs versions, where the `eval-after-load' FILE arg must be a file name (string). Starting with Emacs 22, it can also be a feature name, which is a symbol.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 21:46 ` Drew Adams @ 2022-02-05 0:54 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-05 1:36 ` Drew Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2022-02-05 0:54 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Drew Adams wrote: > I've updated the Commentary of the file to make this clear - > just use 'thingatpt instead of a string file name. > > (The library works also with old Emacs versions, where the > `eval-after-load' FILE arg must be a file name (string). > Starting with Emacs 22, it can also be a feature name, which > is a symbol.) You got it to work with the alternative package, thingatpt+? (yuk! the plus sign) Should be added to the main package ... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-05 0:54 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2022-02-05 1:36 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-05 1:56 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-05 1:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: 'Help-Gnu-Emacs (help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org)' [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 576 bytes --] > You got it to work with the alternative > package, thingatpt+? Got what to work? thingatpt+.el isn't an alternative in the sense that it replaces thingatpt.el. It fixes and extends stuff in the latter. It builds on it. > (yuk! the plus sign) In my case the + means it extends that library, and requires it. (I've even had a couple libraries with suffix - instead of +, where - means load before the library to be extended, and + means load after it.) > Should be added to the main package ... Tell that to the package maintainers. I've tried. [-- Attachment #2: winmail.dat --] [-- Type: application/ms-tnef, Size: 14400 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-05 1:36 ` Drew Adams @ 2022-02-05 1:56 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-05 17:27 ` Drew Adams 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2022-02-05 1:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Drew Adams wrote: >> You got it to work with the alternative >> package, thingatpt+? > > Got what to work? thingatpt+.el isn't an > alternative in the sense that it replaces > thingatpt.el. It fixes and extends stuff > in the latter. It builds on it. Okay, alternative function then. >> (yuk! the plus sign) > > In my case the + means it extends that > library, and requires it. Okay, but it still doesn't look good is all I'm saying. As for what is `require'd no need to communicate that to anyone since it is handled by/in library+'s source ... > (I've even had a couple libraries with suffix - instead of > +, where - means load before the library to be extended, and > + means load after it.) A clever little game in your mind and by all means, but it doesn't look good and with the hyphen-minus it looks even worse since that is used as our beloved lisp-word-separator ... And there is no need to communicate any of that, anything should be possible to load at any time and if at that point further loading is ... required then that is all handled in that pack's source, nothing to bother the mere user with since s/he isn't even doing it. Or they are not redefining each other's stuff, are they? >> Should be added to the main package ... > > Tell that to the package maintainers. I've tried. Okay, what did they say? Do it! Then we can remove the annoying signs as well. Problem solved :) -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-05 1:56 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2022-02-05 17:27 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-06 15:48 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-05 17:27 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Emanuel Berg; +Cc: 'Help-Gnu-Emacs (help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org)' [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2572 bytes --] > >> You got it to work with the alternative > >> package, thingatpt+? > > > > Got what to work? thingatpt+.el isn't an > > alternative in the sense that it replaces > > thingatpt.el. It fixes and extends stuff > > in the latter. It builds on it. > > Okay, alternative function then. I repeat, "Got what to work?" ___ > As for what is `require'd no need to communicate that to > anyone since it is handled by/in library+'s source ... I was explaining to you the file-name convention I use, since you brought up the `+' in the file name. > > (I've even had a couple libraries with suffix - instead of > > +, where - means load before the library to be extended, and > > + means load after it.) > > A clever little game in your mind and by all means, but it > doesn't look good and with the hyphen-minus it looks even > worse since that is used as our beloved > lisp-word-separator ... File-name syntax has nothing to do with Lisp syntax. That some file name "doesn't look good" to you is, well, too bad. You're not obliged to like it. ;-) > And there is no need to communicate any of that, No. Users can sometimes need to know how and when to load a library. > anything should be possible to load at any time Absolutely not - if the intended behavior is to be achieved. Load order of libraries matters, in general. Loading means evaluating Lisp code, and evaluation order matters in Lisp. > and if at that point > further loading is ... required then that is all handled in > that pack's source, nothing to bother the mere user with since > s/he isn't even doing it. I think you're wailing in the dark, here. This is what such a file says. Do you think users shouldn't be told this? ;;; Commentary: ;; ;; Extensions to library `ffap.el'. ;; ;; To use this library, add this to your initialization file. ;; ;; (require 'ffap-) ; Load this library. ;; ;; You should explicitly load *only* `ffap-.el', not also ;; `ffap.el' (this will automatically load `ffap.el'). > Or they are not redefining each other's stuff, are they? They are. And at specific points. `ffap-.el', for instance, redefines variable `ffap-bindings', to make it user option. And it adds a variable to let you inhibit FFAP buffer-locally. Then it loads standard library `ffap.el'. Then it redefines function `ffap-guesser', to take advantage of those vars. https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/download/ffap-.el See also bug #26243: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=25243 [-- Attachment #2: winmail.dat --] [-- Type: application/ms-tnef, Size: 16004 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-05 17:27 ` Drew Adams @ 2022-02-06 15:48 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor @ 2022-02-06 15:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: help-gnu-emacs Drew Adams wrote: > This is what such a file says. Do you think users shouldn't > be told this? > > ;;; Commentary: > ;; > ;; Extensions to library `ffap.el'. > ;; > ;; To use this library, add this to your initialization file. > ;; > ;; (require 'ffap-) ; Load this library. > ;; > ;; You should explicitly load *only* `ffap-.el', not also > ;; `ffap.el' (this will automatically load `ffap.el'). In general I think if they have to be told that, one hasn't written good enough code. If A and B don't rely on each other, obviously the order does not matter. If B relies on A, then whenever B is loaded it will just `require' A so again the order won't matter, or rather, the correct order is not an issue with A, and implicit with B. >> Or they are not redefining each other's stuff, are they? > > They are. And at specific points. Then you ask for trouble. And not just for this reason. But then yes, if B relies on A and B redefines stuff in A, if one intends to use those redefined methods while still referring to them with A's names, then one cannot load A after loading B ... -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-04 21:29 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-04 21:46 ` Drew Adams @ 2022-02-06 6:08 ` Jean Louis 2022-02-06 7:02 ` Drew Adams 1 sibling, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Jean Louis @ 2022-02-06 6:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams; +Cc: Help GNU Emacs * Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> [2022-02-05 00:29]: > > > What does `C-h f bounds-of-thing-at-point' > > > tell you? Does it say that it's an alias > > > for `tap-bounds-of-thing-at-point'? > > > > bounds-of-thing-at-point is a compiled Lisp function in > > ‘thingatpt.el’. > > That means thingatpt+.el wasn't loaded. > > You likely need to either (1) change the file > name "thingatpt" to be absolute or relative > to where you're evaluating that sexp or (2) > use symbol `thingatpt' instead of a string. > Try the latter first. It is not solved and it works well with (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) -- thanks I had the database table `pages' and I have converted them into more general hyperscope objects. There were and there still are some page numbers referenced from other pages, so I had to make a function that will lookup the page number and find the new hyperdocument number, and replace one with each other. With standard thingatpt.el this did work, but I have used 'word and manually taken care that I am on the right "word" which was 123. (defun rcd-change-number-at-point (new-number) (let* ((bounds (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'word)) (number (buffer-substring (car bounds) (cdr bounds))) (point (point))) (goto-char (car bounds)) (delete-char (length number)) (insert (number-to-string new-number)) (goto-char point))) and now instead of `'word' I can put `'number', as the library `thingatpt+.el' is upgrading or extending the built-in one. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* RE: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-06 6:08 ` Jean Louis @ 2022-02-06 7:02 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-06 8:10 ` Jean Louis 0 siblings, 1 reply; 23+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2022-02-06 7:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jean Louis; +Cc: Help GNU Emacs > > That means thingatpt+.el wasn't loaded. > > > > You likely need to either (1) change the file > > name "thingatpt" to be absolute or relative > > to where you're evaluating that sexp or (2) > > use symbol `thingatpt' instead of a string. > > Try the latter first. > > It is not solved and it works well with (bounds-of-thing-at-point > 'number) -- thanks ... > and now instead of `'word' I can put `'number', as the library > `thingatpt+.el' is upgrading or extending the built-in one. Sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying. I guess you're saying, by "it is not solved" that you haven't been able to load thingatpt+.el. It's not clear to me why not or what you've tried. Anyway, you seem happy with whatever you arrived at. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
* Re: [External] : (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil 2022-02-06 7:02 ` Drew Adams @ 2022-02-06 8:10 ` Jean Louis 0 siblings, 0 replies; 23+ messages in thread From: Jean Louis @ 2022-02-06 8:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams; +Cc: Help GNU Emacs * Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> [2022-02-06 10:51]: > Sorry, but I don't understand what you're saying. > I guess you're saying, by "it is not solved" that > you haven't been able to load thingatpt+.el. It's > not clear to me why not or what you've tried. > > Anyway, you seem happy with whatever you arrived at. It is solved that `thingatpt+.el' loads correctly. I think there was some error when I was yanking lines into init.el and once I have corrected parenthesis it works well. Now I am thinking to use thing-at-point functions to quickly move function definitions from one file to other file. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/ ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 23+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-02-06 15:48 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 23+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2022-02-04 12:47 (bounds-of-thing-at-point 'number) ⇒ nil Jean Louis 2022-02-04 13:20 ` tomas 2022-02-04 14:20 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-04 14:41 ` Robert Pluim 2022-02-04 14:50 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-04 21:29 ` [External] : " Drew Adams 2022-02-06 6:12 ` Jean Louis 2022-02-06 8:44 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-06 8:43 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-04 15:19 ` [External] : " Drew Adams 2022-02-04 15:35 ` Jean Louis 2022-02-04 15:50 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-04 16:55 ` Jean Louis 2022-02-04 21:29 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-04 21:46 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-05 0:54 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-05 1:36 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-05 1:56 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-05 17:27 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-06 15:48 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor 2022-02-06 6:08 ` Jean Louis 2022-02-06 7:02 ` Drew Adams 2022-02-06 8:10 ` Jean Louis
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