From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: tomas@tuxteam.de Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Contradictiory directions Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 12:34:46 +0100 Message-ID: References: <20211211035614.15517.53830@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> <877dc6tjz0.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> <871r2e5g4u.fsf@telefonica.net> <4228873.32GBL0O4vs@galex-713.eu> <87fsqt4t97.fsf@telefonica.net> <87bl1h4lix.fsf@telefonica.net> <83bl1hhvjk.fsf@gnu.org> <83lf0khndf.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="nVRLz7RonGrAp7/R" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38410"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: ofv@wanadoo.es, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 16 12:36:45 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mxp40-0009jW-O6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 12:36:44 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37214 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxp3z-0003Dc-BM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 06:36:43 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:34982) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxp2E-00026H-5r for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 06:34:54 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.tuxteam.de ([5.199.139.25]:35354) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mxp2C-0005hY-AP; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 06:34:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tuxteam.de; s=mail; h=In-Reply-To:Content-Type:MIME-Version:References:Message-ID:Subject :Cc:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=bGwzR6u/GxyyI9VH0zpi4k2gEuCwJ7Ja1G8/YTGE6SI=; b=Ld5ASZtQgm9X6jCW+jeIRJFCnc FFPI36KfivQFR8re9BzvQkW4wW4IeKTniF0M9TENsvwF+dEkvNu7PCEWGUS/dBbLEUvG4qyHiYoxN UDz1qfjchhHN//5HPB3csEux7acXrHYOITNvZyA7U5J7pihJBoseJfY7vR1IzuQ1ZVHaiowdj5aCY 5Xu7bbmVVJJUiiwsXPd/15hm/Cp0jvbIeacz9+09TzlgBB5JXon0d5CY2YAklthnZtjXfMCz2HRFh bmtRLZ6b5sF9ahn/PDx3HO9/56pUruZGiz5bNg/rTQI2Vmlay+gT/4fAtlys6+07D20z6qxSnHcwa minjRH9w==; Original-Received: from tomas by mail.tuxteam.de with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1mxp26-0007sS-RQ; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 12:34:46 +0100 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83lf0khndf.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=5.199.139.25; envelope-from=tomas@tuxteam.de; helo=mail.tuxteam.de X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282149 Archived-At: --nVRLz7RonGrAp7/R Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 12:09:48PM +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 10:41:01 +0100 > > Cc: =C3=93scar Fuentes , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > From: > >=20 > > > That rings a bell: it's what I heard 20 years ago about XEmacs vs GNU > > > Emacs when I talked (in person) to its main developers. The rest is > > > history. > >=20 > > I think it is still relevant. Big corps have learnt to ride the waves > > since then. >=20 > Nothing new here: XEmacs started because a certain company wanted to > make profits from it, and was unhappy with the pace and directions of > the Emacs development. I remember well, I'm /that/ old :) > > They still want some kind of user [1] control, but they know they can't > > be as ham-fisted as they used to be in the '8ies and '90ies. >=20 > If you pay too much attention to details, you can never learn from > past experience, because there's no exact repetition of precisely the > same circumstances. I'm not advocating that. I'm just pointing out that the strategy has become "softer". For example, someone pointed out that Google doesn't avoid the GPL. They do (especially V3), but in a less aggressive way. > Which details are important and which aren't is a > non-trivial judgment call, and I guess we differ in how we make that > call. Which might mean you are right and I'm wrong, of course. I think everyone is wrong, in a different way :-) > However, my point was that =C3=93scar approaches the issue in a too > simplistic way (if I take what he wrote as the description of his > approach), and that there's more here than meets the eye. Agreed on this, definitely. Cheers --=20 tom=C3=A1s --nVRLz7RonGrAp7/R Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iF0EABECAB0WIQRp53liolZD6iXhAoIFyCz1etHaRgUCYbskTQAKCRAFyCz1etHa RrE1AJ9z9jTpNoGl+x/TLON7sZZpc7z+lQCfYXJvUkjW5p9YQUN5ntfMkUmfL9M= =Zs3C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --nVRLz7RonGrAp7/R--