From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Third Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#51893: thoughts about keys Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:14:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11578"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 51893@debbugs.gnu.org To: Andreas Diener Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 16 22:15:27 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mn5nb-0002nd-BE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:15:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48848 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mn5nZ-0002pF-P7 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:15:25 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37752) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mn5nC-0002oP-Kh for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:47790) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mn5nC-0000or-CG for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:15:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn5nC-0006AO-05 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:15:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Third Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:15:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 51893 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 51893-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B51893.163709726823609 (code B ref 51893); Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:15:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 51893) by debbugs.gnu.org; 16 Nov 2021 21:14:28 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:59334 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn5me-00068i-3X for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:14:28 -0500 Original-Received: from outbound.soverin.net ([116.202.126.228]:40013) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn5mb-00068I-VN; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 16:14:27 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp.soverin.net (unknown [10.10.3.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by outbound.soverin.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1C6F71D8; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:14:19 +0000 (UTC) Original-Received: from smtp.soverin.net (smtp.soverin.net [159.69.232.138]) by soverin.net DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=idiocy.org; s=soverin; t=1637097258; bh=t/dHd7vMFfUhMdH799lfaLgFkjJz0wZD4GJtw2x9sig=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=hUKgyOtQi3h7Is33OVjqZNQ87S2co/bRcKNZ/Oxm8hyFPA/XL7B8A8ryMk2XBLx52 yejHpnGUmpr/vAkqzatv43FLCDLGLSocxpFz9xvPsRT5FZMfVGnvBEtVhgFFB02oo2 OYOv/rZzhD9J3VLByudtAp+5usZVollcegztAEpo3caIEqg0ifQI2DbxyTlKeWCwP9 rME71wUG16vNZTdgZev20aGFQ5RpoepGWihjoPJQnmypJ6YA5+anbc0puzeE4qxK2P quqGFPvtN2gSUPLcfqiYTEZmdGSoT1sF4+aPQ775vi2WmnUbWX8+3F2Wusc8DCtmAa fRigDBk6rn+ew== Original-Received: from alan by faroe.holly.idiocy.org with local (Exim 4.95-RC2) (envelope-from ) id 1mn5mT-000Pxb-9M; Tue, 16 Nov 2021 21:14:17 +0000 Mail-Followup-To: Alan Third , Andreas Diener , 51893@debbugs.gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:220157 Archived-At: package emacs merge 51893 5206 thankyou On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 09:55:19AM +0100, Andreas Diener wrote: > Dear Madam or Sir, > > first: I am from Germany and not a foreign language correspondence clerk, so please excuse my "not so nice" english. I > hope you will understand my text (and my issue). > I saw your email-adress on the gnu-emacs-site and I thought, you may be interested in a comment from a kind of frustrated > "almost-Emacs-user". > > My setting: as mentioned I am from Germany so I work with german keyboard-layout (on Mac), Emacs is 27.2. I am not a > software engineer and I don't write programm code but "prosa" and at times I use LaTeX. To make notes I like to work with > a "slim" editor and simple txt-files with which I can work later on. > Looking around I recently stumbled over Vim and Emacs and I am impressed how powerful these programs are. And perhaps for > me it is not really necessary to work with such advanced programms, I think it is beneficial to know them (and > additional: very interesting and although not so easy to handle I think that's part of the fun). > > Now: the Emacs seems not to be usable for me because of one thing (so far): on a german keyboard there are several > important charakters only available in combination with "normal" keys and the ALT-key (= Meta-key in Emacs). In Emacs > there are key bindings with the ALT-key and that's ok, but all the special characters (e.g. \, |, [, ], {, }, @, ~, „ “ > etc.), which I need kind of frequently (among others for LaTeX) are not available here. > And I think that's kind of distressing, because the CMD-key (Mac) or Window-key, which seems to be on every keyboard > these days, is directly next to the ALT-key and not used at all. > > So the thing seems this to me: even I'd like to explore the Emacs more I am afraid I have to leave it as a serious > option. This is a duplicate of 5206 et al. Unfortunately it's a question of defaults and there doesn't seem to be a satisfactory solution. If you're sure you never want to use the bindings on cmd, which correspond with macOS shortcuts, you can put something like: (setq ns-alternate-modifier 'none ns-command-modifier 'meta) in your init.el. There are other options which are described in the "Mac / GNUstep Customization" section of the manual. -- Alan Third