From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Noob dumb question (extending emacs) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2021 08:47:42 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87o87hnrpt.fsf@zoho.eu> <875ytnzka1.fsf@zoho.eu> <87h7d6zrx9.fsf@zoho.eu> <87fssqxp1s.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12382"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.7+183 (3d24855) (2021-05-28) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 25 07:56:30 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mesyD-00031y-Pq for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2021 07:56:29 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59376 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mesyB-00015p-Nk for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2021 01:56:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57676) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mesxZ-000152-R4 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2021 01:55:49 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:43381) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mesxW-0000Ne-MG for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Oct 2021 01:55:49 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.75.189.151]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 0000000000027F05.00000000617646DF.00007F17; Sun, 24 Oct 2021 22:55:43 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87fssqxp1s.fsf@zoho.eu> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_score: -0.0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (-0.0 / 5.0 requ) SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:134136 Archived-At: * Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor [2021-10-24 21:22]: > Yes, commands that are run very often and have no security > implications one can maybe be cool with a downgrade for that > reason, but commands that are used seldom and have security > implications, nope, that should be at the level of the CLI > alternative _or_ one should simply use the CLI alternative. In science, if there is "security implication" then it has to be proven. That is why breaking crypto requires a proof which is usually program or exploit that breaks it, not just a theoretical statement. It is not reasonable within Emacs environment and especially on this mailing list to keep recommending general CLI alternatives. What about cp, mv, we use it in Dired, should we start now recommending using external "cp" instead of Dired one? As much as possible we strive to integrate features into Emacs, not the other way around. > Note that you can still use your (or any other) Elisp > interface ... > > I think this is much more the practical approach BTW! I will use Emacs Lisp interface to external commands in cases where it is for some reason not possible to get equivalent speed and functionality from within Emacs. For example GNU `mail' utility is very handy and powerful to construct emails, I rather use that one, then the Emacs way of constructing emails. I will rather use `mutt' as Emacs offers none of email clients nearly so fast and functional as `mutt'. I have tried my best to find similarly functional client in Emacs and I have tried them all, solutions are slow and lack features I need. For Xournalapp, I will use Emacs and database to track locations of Xournal notes, but external program must be invoked to modify such note. But if user does not want to integrate stuff in Emacs Lisp, such will use more external commands. Many will use their graphical file managers instead of Dired, that is up to individual's desires. > 2. the skilled and scientific and practical approach: rewire > Elisp to be at that same level (practical as in doing it, > but also as in sharing it in the FOSS world) If program modifies Emacs and is published, it has to be with GPLv3 license or compatible one. Is it clear? > 3. other approach: write it in ELisp, and after a nontrivial > effort the outcome will still not be as good as the CLI > tool That is too general statement, it seem to come from your experience in which I did not participate. Outcome of Emacs Lisp may be equally good as other external command. I wonder how you, who I know you to have written many Emacs Lisp programs now speaks contradictory. -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns In support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/