[elpa] New package: vc-got

[elpa] New package: vc-got

[Omar Polo]

Hello,

I'd like to add vc-got to GNU ELPA.  It's a small package that
implements a VC backend for the Game of Trees[0] VCS.  I've been using
it on a daily basis for quite a while and I think it's "ready" for a
first public version.  It's also the first package I'm publishing :)

The code can be found here:

	https://git.omarpolo.com/vc-got

or here as a mirror:

	https://github.com/omar-polo/vc-got

and I've just tagged the 1.0 release.

All the code was written by me and Timo (cc'd), and we both have a
copyright assignment AFAIK.

Regarding the code: I've discovered vc-do-command too late and rolled my
own vc-got--call in the meantime.  I do intend to make more use of the
existing vc interface in future versions.

Talking about updates, one thing that I'm not sure is how to handle
them: if tomorrow I'll release a v1.1 I do have to ping emacs-devel,
right?

Thanks,

Omar Polo

[0]: https://gameoftrees.org/

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Omar Polo <op@omarpolo.com>
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 12:17:26 +0200
> Cc: Timo Myyrä <timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi>
> 
> I'd like to add vc-got to GNU ELPA.  It's a small package that
> implements a VC backend for the Game of Trees[0] VCS.

Thanks.

What do people think about the need to have Got support in Emacs OOTB?
Is it important enough to have it in core?

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 31.08.2021 16:10, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> What do people think about the need to have Got support in Emacs OOTB?
> Is it important enough to have it in core?

It's an alternative client for Git repositories, right?

We already have vc-git.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Philip Kaludercic]

Omar Polo <op@omarpolo.com> writes:

> The code can be found here:
>
> 	https://git.omarpolo.com/vc-got
>
> or here as a mirror:
>
> 	https://github.com/omar-polo/vc-got
>
> and I've just tagged the 1.0 release.

Which of the two URLs are preferred?

> Regarding the code: I've discovered vc-do-command too late and rolled my
> own vc-got--call in the meantime.  I do intend to make more use of the
> existing vc interface in future versions.

Would you want to update the project before it is added to ELPA? I might
also be able to find some time to comment on it if you are interested
(I too released a vc package (vc-backup) just a short while ago, so I
might be able to give some input of value).

> Talking about updates, one thing that I'm not sure is how to handle
> them: if tomorrow I'll release a v1.1 I do have to ping emacs-devel,
> right?

Not necessarily. The ELPA package specification can also contain an
:auto-sync attribute, indicating that the ELPA server will regularly
check for new updates (update-commits are identified by bumping the
version tag in the package header). If you can ensure that all
contributors have signed the copyright assignment and can maintain basic
repository hygiene, the packages can be updated manually too.

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:31:04 +0300
> 
> On 31.08.2021 16:10, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > What do people think about the need to have Got support in Emacs OOTB?
> > Is it important enough to have it in core?
> 
> It's an alternative client for Git repositories, right?
> 
> We already have vc-git.

So you are saying it doesn't have a place even on ELPA?

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 31.08.2021 16:41, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> So you are saying it doesn't have a place even on ELPA?

Sure it has: the ELPA packages don't have to be 100% practical.

If people want to use got, they might enjoy a dedicated VC backend for it.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: op@omarpolo.com, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:46:05 +0300
> 
> On 31.08.2021 16:41, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > So you are saying it doesn't have a place even on ELPA?
> 
> Sure it has: the ELPA packages don't have to be 100% practical.

Really?  I'm surprised.

> If people want to use got, they might enjoy a dedicated VC backend for it.

So I'm asking if, for the same reason, it could make sense to have it
in core.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 31.08.2021 16:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Cc: op@omarpolo.com, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, emacs-devel@gnu.org
>> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
>> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:46:05 +0300
>>
>> On 31.08.2021 16:41, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>>> So you are saying it doesn't have a place even on ELPA?
>>
>> Sure it has: the ELPA packages don't have to be 100% practical.
> 
> Really?  I'm surprised.

Surely even you can agree that criteria for ELPA and core shouldn't be 
the same.

>> If people want to use got, they might enjoy a dedicated VC backend for it.
> 
> So I'm asking if, for the same reason, it could make sense to have it
> in core.

Aside from "why not?" not being a good reason, since 
2697123933e3ac7ed4e21a6d12746a98ed7fa74a vc-responsible-backend iterates 
through all enabled backends when choosing the "current" one. So the 
longer we make the list of built-in backends, the more overhead we get 
on this.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Omar Polo]

Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:

> Omar Polo <op@omarpolo.com> writes:
>
>> The code can be found here:
>>
>> 	https://git.omarpolo.com/vc-got
>>
>> or here as a mirror:
>>
>> 	https://github.com/omar-polo/vc-got
>>
>> and I've just tagged the 1.0 release.
>
> Which of the two URLs are preferred?

I prefer the one on the domain I control and that's the one I'm
advertising as URL in the package header, but for packaging purpose I
think github offers less downtime than my humble server :)

>> Regarding the code: I've discovered vc-do-command too late and rolled my
>> own vc-got--call in the meantime.  I do intend to make more use of the
>> existing vc interface in future versions.
>
> Would you want to update the project before it is added to ELPA?

I don't have strong opinion on this.  I'm not in a hurry to publish it!
I just wanted to finally tag a release since it's from last December
that I'm (very very very slowly) working on it, and at that point I
thought of sharing it.

> I might
> also be able to find some time to comment on it if you are interested

If you have some time to spare, I'll be more than happy to receive
comments on the code, thanks!

> (I too released a vc package (vc-backup) just a short while ago, so I
> might be able to give some input of value).

I remember reading on this list about vc-backup, it's been on my todo
list try it but I still haven't found the time, really like the idea
thought!

>> Talking about updates, one thing that I'm not sure is how to handle
>> them: if tomorrow I'll release a v1.1 I do have to ping emacs-devel,
>> right?
>
> Not necessarily. The ELPA package specification can also contain an
> :auto-sync attribute, indicating that the ELPA server will regularly
> check for new updates (update-commits are identified by bumping the
> version tag in the package header). If you can ensure that all
> contributors have signed the copyright assignment and can maintain basic
> repository hygiene, the packages can be updated manually too.

Ah right, now I remember reading about the :auto-sync attribute.

Yes, all the code was written by me with help from Timo, and we both
have a FSF copyright assignment.  I've also noted this requirement in
the ``Contributing'' section of the readme.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Omar Polo]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> On 31.08.2021 16:10, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> What do people think about the need to have Got support in Emacs OOTB?
>> Is it important enough to have it in core?

I don't think; while I really like using got and developing vc-got as
part of emacs itself would simplify some aspects for me (there were some
changes in VC between emacs 27.2 and the current master), it's not that
widespread to justify moving into core IMHO.

All the code was written by people with a copyright assignment, and I'll
ensure that this will hold true in the future, so if it becomes really
popular we can always move it to core later, right?

> It's an alternative client for Git repositories, right?
>
> We already have vc-git.

Yes and no.  got uses the git format for *bare repositories* and in this
sense it's always possible to switch back and forth from got and git and
collaborate with other peoples.  (in fact I'm using it to track the
emacs repo on my machine).  But Got it's not a Git porcelain, it is
another VCS that happens to use the same format for storing
commits/tags/branches.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: op@omarpolo.com, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:55:10 +0300
> 
> > So I'm asking if, for the same reason, it could make sense to have it
> > in core.
> 
> Aside from "why not?" not being a good reason, since 
> 2697123933e3ac7ed4e21a6d12746a98ed7fa74a vc-responsible-backend iterates 
> through all enabled backends when choosing the "current" one. So the 
> longer we make the list of built-in backends, the more overhead we get 
> on this.

How about keeping it out of vc-handled-backends, so that people who
want could replace Git with Got?

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 31.08.2021 17:00, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> so that people who
> want could replace Git with Got

With 'M-x package-install RET vc-got RET'.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: op@omarpolo.com, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:02:44 +0300
> 
> On 31.08.2021 17:00, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > so that people who
> > want could replace Git with Got
> 
> With 'M-x package-install RET vc-got RET'.

So I got it that you think Got should not be in core.
Okay, thanks.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: op@omarpolo.com, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:02:44 +0300
> 
> On 31.08.2021 17:00, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > so that people who
> > want could replace Git with Got
> 
> With 'M-x package-install RET vc-got RET'.

So I got it that you think Got should not be in core.
Okay, thanks.

Any other opinions?

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Stefan Kangas]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> So I got it that you think Got should not be in core.
> Okay, thanks.
>
> Any other opinions?

This seems somewhat specific to OpenBSD and IIUC has yet to become
widely used even there.

It makes sense to have it on GNU ELPA, but I think we should wait for
it to pick up more traction before including it in core.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 31.08.2021 17:00, Omar Polo wrote:
> All the code was written by people with a copyright assignment, and I'll
> ensure that this will hold true in the future, so if it becomes really
> popular we can always move it to core later, right?

Yup.

>> It's an alternative client for Git repositories, right?
>>
>> We already have vc-git.
> Yes and no.  got uses the git format for*bare repositories*  and in this
> sense it's always possible to switch back and forth from got and git and
> collaborate with other peoples.  (in fact I'm using it to track the
> emacs repo on my machine).  But Got it's not a Git porcelain, it is
> another VCS that happens to use the same format for storing
> commits/tags/branches.

So you don't (and can't) use Git to commit or even init/clone/push?

But can collaborate with others. It's an interesting tradeoff.

Then yes, the decision should be based on what we know about its popularity.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Omar Polo]

Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:

> On 31.08.2021 17:00, Omar Polo wrote:
>> All the code was written by people with a copyright assignment, and I'll
>> ensure that this will hold true in the future, so if it becomes really
>> popular we can always move it to core later, right?
>
> Yup.
>
>>> It's an alternative client for Git repositories, right?
>>>
>>> We already have vc-git.
>> Yes and no.  got uses the git format for*bare repositories*  and in this
>> sense it's always possible to switch back and forth from got and git and
>> collaborate with other peoples.  (in fact I'm using it to track the
>> emacs repo on my machine).  But Got it's not a Git porcelain, it is
>> another VCS that happens to use the same format for storing
>> commits/tags/branches.
>
> So you don't (and can't) use Git to commit or even init/clone/push?

The two VCS can share the same bare repository, and can push/pull from
the same remote.  In this sense, they're interoperable.

The usual workflow is to clone a bare repository (with either `got
clone' or `git clone --bare'), then checkout it into a worktree with
`got checkout' and start working.

If you need to use git for a specific reason, you re-clone the
repository (using git this time) and work with git.  Then you can
push/pull your changes etc.  But the exact same worktree cannot be
shared between git and got, they use different formats for that.

> But can collaborate with others. It's an interesting tradeoff.
>
> Then yes, the decision should be based on what we know about its popularity.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 31.08.2021 16:10, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> What do people think about the need to have Got support in Emacs OOTB?

Relatedly, vc-hgcmd seems like a better candidate for moving. Maybe even 
replacing the current hg backend at some later point.

But we need some Mercurial users on this mailing list to chime in and do 
some testing, at least.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:21:42 +0200
> Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, op@omarpolo.com, 
> 	Emacs developers <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Any other opinions?
> 
> This seems somewhat specific to OpenBSD and IIUC has yet to become
> widely used even there.
> 
> It makes sense to have it on GNU ELPA, but I think we should wait for
> it to pick up more traction before including it in core.

OK, thanks, makes sense.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Omar Polo <op@omarpolo.com>
> Cc: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 16:00:50 +0200
> 
> 
> Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru> writes:
> 
> > On 31.08.2021 16:10, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> What do people think about the need to have Got support in Emacs OOTB?
> >> Is it important enough to have it in core?
> 
> I don't think; while I really like using got and developing vc-got as
> part of emacs itself would simplify some aspects for me (there were some
> changes in VC between emacs 27.2 and the current master), it's not that
> widespread to justify moving into core IMHO.

OK, thanks.

> All the code was written by people with a copyright assignment, and I'll
> ensure that this will hold true in the future, so if it becomes really
> popular we can always move it to core later, right?

Yes.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Cc: timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>
> Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2021 17:44:24 +0300
> 
> Relatedly, vc-hgcmd seems like a better candidate for moving. Maybe even 
> replacing the current hg backend at some later point.
> 
> But we need some Mercurial users on this mailing list to chime in and do 
> some testing, at least.

Sure, if someone has an opinion on that, please speak up.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Philip Kaludercic]

Omar Polo <op@omarpolo.com> writes:

> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes:
>
>> Omar Polo <op@omarpolo.com> writes:
>>
>>> The code can be found here:
>>>
>>> 	https://git.omarpolo.com/vc-got
>>>
>>> or here as a mirror:
>>>
>>> 	https://github.com/omar-polo/vc-got
>>>
>>> and I've just tagged the 1.0 release.
>>
>> Which of the two URLs are preferred?
>
> I prefer the one on the domain I control and that's the one I'm
> advertising as URL in the package header, but for packaging purpose I
> think github offers less downtime than my humble server :)

In that case I'd suggest using your repository first, and perhaps adding
a comment linking to the mirror.

>> I might
>> also be able to find some time to comment on it if you are interested
>
> If you have some time to spare, I'll be more than happy to receive
> comments on the code, thanks!

Ok, I'll try to see if I can find anything to say.

>> Not necessarily. The ELPA package specification can also contain an
>> :auto-sync attribute, indicating that the ELPA server will regularly
>> check for new updates (update-commits are identified by bumping the
>> version tag in the package header). If you can ensure that all
>> contributors have signed the copyright assignment and can maintain basic
>> repository hygiene, the packages can be updated manually too.
>
> Ah right, now I remember reading about the :auto-sync attribute.
>
> Yes, all the code was written by me with help from Timo, and we both
> have a FSF copyright assignment.  I've also noted this requirement in
> the ``Contributing'' section of the readme.

Then this should work too.

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Philip Kaludercic]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 104 bytes --]


Omar and I have fixed a few issues and prepared vc-got for submission in
GNU ELPA. Here is the patch:


[-- Warning: decoded text below may be mangled, UTF-8 assumed --]
[-- Attachment #2: 0001-elpa-packages-vc-got-Add-package.patch --]
[-- Type: text/x-diff, Size: 862 bytes --]

From 6d8c39676e004c33c6c8caa1f8ca4b95a02d8baf Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001
From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>
Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2021 14:58:37 +0200
Subject: [PATCH] * elpa-packages (vc-got): Add package

---
 elpa-packages | 4 ++++
 1 file changed, 4 insertions(+)

diff --git a/elpa-packages b/elpa-packages
index 69dd6e33dd..18be9055cb 100644
--- a/elpa-packages
+++ b/elpa-packages
@@ -397,6 +397,10 @@
  ("url-http-ntlm" 	:url nil)
  ("validate"		:url "https://github.com/Malabarba/validate.el")
  ("valign"		:url "https://github.com/casouri/valign")
+ ("vc-got"		:url "https://git.omarpolo.com/vc-got"
+  ;; Mirror: https://github.com/omar-polo/vc-got/
+  :ignored-files ("targets")
+  :auto-sync t)
  ("vc-hgcmd"		:url "https://github.com/muffinmad/emacs-vc-hgcmd"
   :auto-sync t)
  ("vc-backup"		:url "https://git.sr.ht/~pkal/vc-backup"
-- 
2.30.2


[-- Attachment #3: Type: text/plain, Size: 61 bytes --]


If it is ok, I can push the commit.

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Jean Louis]

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2021-08-31 17:06]:
> How about keeping it out of vc-handled-backends, so that people who
> want could replace Git with Got?

Git and Got are different VCS systems. Once can understand its
goals by reading the reference:

Reference:
https://gameoftrees.org/goals.html

Project guidelines

- Follow OpenBSD's security practices and coding style.
  - Use a development process based on code review in email.
  - Consistently use pledge(2) and unveil(2) across the code base.
  - Use privilege-separation when parsing repository data from network or disk. 
- Keep the entire code base BSD-licenced. 


Long-term goals

    Remain on-disk compatible with bare Git repositories.
        Don't insist on Git-compatibility beyond this requirement. 
    Provide a complete version control tool suite for OpenBSD.
        Intuitive command line interface for required version control operations (got).
        Interactive repository browser for history analysis and review of committed changes (tog).
        CGI repository browser for web servers (gotweb).
        Repository administration tooling with a strong focus on backup and recovery (gotadmin).
        Repository server for hosting a central repository and synchronizing changes to a cascade of public and private mirrors. 
    Consider workflow requirements of OpenBSD developers.
        Strong built-in support for a centralized repository model (ideas about pull/push).
        Keep things easy for developers who don't need branches.
        Support local branches for developers who need them.
        Support "-stable" release branches.
        Support features required by the OpenBSD project's build infrastructure. 
    Implement authenticated and encrypted network communications.
        Provide SSH and optional TLS support for cloning repositories and pulling changes.
        Exclusively rely on SSH for pushing changes.
        Do not implement server-side support for plaintext network communications. 




Jean

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Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 07:57:42 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi,
>   op@omarpolo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2021-08-31 17:06]:
> > How about keeping it out of vc-handled-backends, so that people who
> > want could replace Git with Got?
> 
> Git and Got are different VCS systems. Once can understand its
> goals by reading the reference:

Is that an agreement with my proposal, or its contradiction?  And in
any case, what is the rationale?

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Jean Louis]

* Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2021-10-17 09:21]:
> > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 07:57:42 +0300
> > From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> > Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi,
> >   op@omarpolo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > 
> > * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2021-08-31 17:06]:
> > > How about keeping it out of vc-handled-backends, so that people who
> > > want could replace Git with Got?
> > 
> > Git and Got are different VCS systems. Once can understand its
> > goals by reading the reference:
> 
> Is that an agreement with my proposal, or its contradiction?  And in
> any case, what is the rationale?

It is just remark on differences. I don't think that people would
replace Git with Got as how I see it, Got is not replacement for
Git. It is VCS in its own. I think Got and Git could be both in
vc-handled-backends if user wants it so.



Jean

Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns:
https://www.fsf.org/campaigns

In support of Richard M. Stallman
https://stallmansupport.org/

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 10:33:39 +0300
> From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> Cc: dgutov@yandex.ru, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi, op@omarpolo.com,
>   emacs-devel@gnu.org
> 
> * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2021-10-17 09:21]:
> > > Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2021 07:57:42 +0300
> > > From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
> > > Cc: Dmitry Gutov <dgutov@yandex.ru>, timo.myyra@bittivirhe.fi,
> > >   op@omarpolo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > > 
> > > * Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> [2021-08-31 17:06]:
> > > > How about keeping it out of vc-handled-backends, so that people who
> > > > want could replace Git with Got?
> > > 
> > > Git and Got are different VCS systems. Once can understand its
> > > goals by reading the reference:
> > 
> > Is that an agreement with my proposal, or its contradiction?  And in
> > any case, what is the rationale?
> 
> It is just remark on differences. I don't think that people would
> replace Git with Got as how I see it, Got is not replacement for
> Git. It is VCS in its own.

Yes, which is why I said "people who want".

> I think Got and Git could be both in vc-handled-backends if user
> wants it so.

that has disadvantages, see the discussion.

Re: [elpa] New package: vc-got

[Omar Polo]

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> [...]
>
> It is just remark on differences. I don't think that people would
> replace Git with Got as how I see it, Got is not replacement for
> Git. It is VCS in its own. I think Got and Git could be both in
> vc-handled-backends if user wants it so.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that's already the case.  vc-got has an
autoloaded form to register itself into vc-handled-backends (and to
vc-directory-exclusion-list btw.)

There's no way around, if you want to write your own vc-backend it must
be added to that list.

> Jean
>
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