From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2021 10:54:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <16338bdc2497fc51c6fb6d54ab370bfb@webmail.orcon.net.nz> <874ka5gsqa.fsf@gnus.org> <25d8d72022b571db5291@heytings.org> <87h7e2xsl5.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="20754"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Richard Stallman , psainty@orcon.net.nz, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Gregory Heytings , joaotavora@gmail.com, Lars Ingebrigtsen To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Andr=E9_A=2E?= Gomes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 30 12:55:46 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mVtj8-000579-FX for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:55:46 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60978 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVtj6-0006ET-80 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 06:55:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52856) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVthj-0005Pf-JV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 06:54:19 -0400 Original-Received: from colin.muc.de ([193.149.48.1]:22040 helo=mail.muc.de) by eggs.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mVthh-0001fM-NQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 06:54:19 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 11951 invoked by uid 3782); 30 Sep 2021 10:54:14 -0000 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15a46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.90.70]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Thu, 30 Sep 2021 12:54:14 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 5410 invoked by uid 1000); 30 Sep 2021 10:54:13 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87h7e2xsl5.fsf@gmail.com> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de Received-SPF: pass client-ip=193.149.48.1; envelope-from=acm@muc.de; helo=mail.muc.de X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:275869 Archived-At: Hello, André. On Thu, Sep 30, 2021 at 13:31:34 +0300, André A. Gomes wrote: > Gregory Heytings writes: > > A simple example: suppose you want to check which ELPA package > > activates tab-bar-mode. That's easy to do with "grep -R tab-bar-mode" > > in a clone of the ELPA repository. With symbol prefix renaming, a > > package author might decide to add ("tb-" . "tab-bar-") in the > > shorthands of the package, and "grep -R tab-bar-mode" will not show > > anything. Likewise for tag systems, the symbols that are recorded > > will possibly be different in each package, and a search for > > tab-bar-mode will not return occurrences of tb-mode. > I don't think this is a problem. Grep comes the world of Unix and its > mantras. But Lisp REPLs come from another world. > Using grep and tag systems to reason about a Lisp program is like eating > soup with a fork. You can do it, but it's the wrong tool. That is a very negative and unhelpful thing to say. Do you have the requisite background to say it? What precisely would you use in place of grep, which is a powerful, easily learnt, fast, universal tool? My experience is that grep is an essential tool for Emacs maintenance. > -- > André A. Gomes > "Free Thought, Free World" -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).