From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Use Emacs as the IDE for Wolfram Mathematica. Date: Mon, 24 May 2021 12:10:07 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87a6om1022.fsf@zoho.eu> <871r9x25l8.fsf@zoho.eu> <87czthxhtk.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6353"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0.6 (2021-03-06) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org, moasenwood@zoho.eu To: Christopher Dimech Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon May 24 11:13:51 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ll6el-0001Tl-9n for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 11:13:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43648 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ll6ek-0005yq-Cn for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 05:13:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:57626) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ll6dy-0005xD-DO for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 05:13:02 -0400 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:53179) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ll6dw-0005dZ-86 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 24 May 2021 05:13:02 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:102.87.235.181]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.3,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000000ADF16.0000000060AB6E18.00005E5E; Mon, 24 May 2021 02:12:56 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Christopher Dimech , moasenwood@zoho.eu, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:130167 Archived-At: * Christopher Dimech [2021-05-24 11:28]: > > > When any Emacs package is made, then the package has to be > > > with GPL3+ compatible software license because it requires > > > Emacs which is GPL3+ licensed. > > That is a frequent misconception, if some code requires emacs, it > does not mean that the license has to be GPL3+ compatible. The > license could be proprietary, open source, etc. (✿╹◡╹) Maybe misconception is on my side or your side, I believe it is in your side. Emacs package is not quite same as proprietary Lisp code that could run under free software programming language. gcc is free compiler, and people could make proprietary software with it. But such proprietary software does not change the gcc and not necessarily depend on gcc to get run, but as soon as it depend on some GPL component, then it cannot be made proprietary. Now CLISP, Guile, and other programming languages may be GNU GPL software. When you make a program to be run by Guile, CLISP, those programs could be proprietary software as they do not change nor modify the Guile, nor CLISP. They are just executed by free software. But the overall result depends of components used in the program, you cannot just include GPL components as you wish and want in your proprietary program. Would the Emacs Lisp program be exclusively run from command line as run by Emacs as programming language then such program could be licensed as proprietary software. But that also would depend if your program is using the GPL components or not, which most probably would use. (⌐■_■) So the question is answered here: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#IfInterpreterIsGPL If you just interpret the Emacs Lisp, it is fine, but question is, do you bind to GPL components? Most probably you do. Would you make an Emacs Lisp program that does not bind to any of the GPL components then such program could be proprietary. But if you do bind to any components, it cannot be proprietary. For example, if you do something like: (require 'seq) That would make it no go, as your program clearly binds to GPL-ed sequence manipulation library of Nicolas Petton. You cannot legally make proprietary software by binding to GPL libraries. As long as Emacs program has to be run within Emacs editor, it is changing the editor, thus it is modification and program is not considered stand-alone any more, it is combined program in copyright terms, and cannot be proprietary. > The problem is not about the support of a programming language. > When emacs supports a language such as C, it would also support > proprietary implementations of the language. I see no problem with > that. But currently, there is no free software alternative to > Wolfram Mathematica that benefits users. I would say there is no alternative to free software, so I will not use Wolfram Mathematica, I will not even look what it does, but when somebody comes up and tells what features are needed we can maybe find. - SageMath is free software - GNU Octave is free software - R Programming Language is free software - Jupyter is free software - Maxima is free software -- Jean Take action in Free Software Foundation campaigns: https://www.fsf.org/campaigns Sign an open letter in support of Richard M. Stallman https://stallmansupport.org/