Re: Org mode rant

[Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>]

* Bastien <bzg@gnu.org> [2021-05-01 13:10]:
> Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:
> 
> >> Write less to-do items and more notes. Notes and "remember" lists are
> >> always good. But do not blur the line between what you want to
> >> remember and what you need to do3. Your to-do list should be a list of
> >> things to do, not to remember. To-do lists should describe what you
> >> must do, not what you want to do, which belongs on the "remember" list
> >> until you really must do it.
> >
> > I wish I could understand it.
> 
> My point here is this one: psychologically, I often find it difficult
> to resist the temptation of noting something down *before* I know if
> it is something I need to do or just something I need to remember to
> check at some point, ending up with my to-do list presenting me with
> to many things to do, some of them not really belonging here.

When you note something in that example, do you put a tag TODO in Org?

If so, why not just leave it without TODO...

> Now I force myself to really ponder: "Do you really need to do it?  
> If not, do you want to remember it?" and I do this *before* I write 
> or capturing.

It's interesting to exchange.

Constant writing, noting, pondering may definitely lead to moments
like described.

If I may compare to my workflow I have not found myself thinking
beforehand if I need to do something or to remember it (note it), as
that decision has already been made, so I am writing something that
has to be done or I am writing a note.

Like "fetch money from Western Union office" -- it is harder to get
into thinking should I just remember it, or should I do it -- as if I
just remember it, money will not come in my hands.

The distinction on what is ACTION (actionable) and what is NOT ACTION
should be very clear in any note taking system. Refining those objects
further with their types, classes, properties is great feature in any
note taking system.

Since I have switched from Org to database meta level outline where
each node can be something else like Org, enriched text, image, video,
etc. the decision comes first on the type.

Do I want to follow up some person's development, like sales process,
learning process? I press key for that.

Do I want to assign task to somebody? There is special key.

Do I want to create new task for me? There is key for that.

This type of task in Org is just fine to be described as a heading,
especially of there are various tasks related to each other, each
actionable without mixture with notes.

* Pay ticket to town
* Fetch money from Western Union
* Purchase bread, come back home

If there are however notes around, that is where it becomes mixture
that does not give clarity:

* Pay ticket to town
* Prices of tickets to town
* List of Western Union offices
* Bread types I like
* Fetch money from Western Union
* Purchase bread, come back home

That is where nicely marked TODO items make a visual distinction:

* TODO Pay ticket to town
* Prices of tickets to town
* List of Western Union offices
* Bread types I like
* TODO Fetch money from Western Union
* TODO Purchase bread, come back home

Then we get more confusion with priorities as the list could also look like this:

* Prices of tickets to town
* TODO [#B] Fetch money from Western Union
* TODO [#C] Purchase bread, come back home
* List of Western Union offices
* Bread types I like
* TODO [#A] Pay ticket to town

Priorities in Org mode are attributes that may be used in queries, but
I guess there is no sorting or ordering function yet.

If those nodes are in the database, single key is moving one task up
or down in the priorities order. Some things must come before other things.

I recommend separating notes and actionable items:

* Notes

** Prices of tickets to town
** List of Western Union offices
** Bread types I like

* Tasks [0/3] [0%]

** TODO [#A] Pay ticket to town
** TODO [#B] Fetch money from Western Union
** TODO [#C] Purchase bread, come back home

where by if tasks are written in the chronological order, priorities
should also become redundant as the order itself designates
priorities:

* Tasks [0/3] [0%]

** TODO Pay ticket to town
** TODO Fetch money from Western Union
** TODO Purchase bread, come back home

Another problem we have are relations, we do want to know where are
Western Union offices, but the note can be far somewhere even in the
other file. That makes things difficult.

Then we have option to tag things that are related:

* Notes

** Prices of tickets to town                                        :transport:
** List of Western Union offices                                    :western:
** Bread types I like                                                 :bread:

* Tasks [0/3] [0%]

** TODO Pay ticket to town                                        :transport:
** TODO Fetch money from Western Union                              :western:
** TODO Purchase bread, come back home                                :bread:

Then one has to use Agenda function to find items by the tag, to find
what is related. And if we have few more tags, it becomes really messy:

* Notes related to Munich                           :notes:munich:germany:eu:

** Prices of tickets to town                        :transport:bus:tram:taxi:
** List of Western Union offices                       :western:money:family:
** Bread types I like                                  :bread:cakes:birthday:

* Tasks [0/3] [0%]                                                   :action:

** TODO Pay ticket to town                                    :transport:bus:
** TODO Fetch money from Western Union                       :western:munich:
** TODO Purchase bread, come back home                         :bread:mother:

And I have not yet mentioned property lists, which may visually
disturb the user and make it all tiresome.

When working with the database, specific items can simply be related
to each other. Press key and see all related items. But nothing need
to visually bother user.

Number of tags can be unlimited, it is just a string separated with
spaces. Tags could be 20 for a single item and as they are in the
database, such tags need not be displayed visually on the side to the
heading.

If person then wants to find all money related items it becomes
trivial, without searching for files, pressing R remove from Agenda,
etc, what else.


Jean

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