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From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca,
	jakanakaevangeli@chiru.no, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Stop frames stealing eachothers' minibuffers!
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2021 10:28:26 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YFXOSrVwtQVhzaek@ACM> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <838s6jdthq.fsf@gnu.org>

Hello, Eli.

On Fri, Mar 19, 2021 at 17:59:45 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2021 15:35:13 +0000
> > Cc: rudalics@gmx.at, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, jakanakaevangeli@chiru.no,
> >   emacs-devel@gnu.org
> > From: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>

> > > > , the new frame comes up _with_ the minibuffer visible.  I don't
> > > > understand how the mini window survived with its contents, and it
> > > > worries me.

> > > Why does it worry you?  You've asked Emacs to create a frame, and a
> > > frame by default has a mini-window.  Right?

> > I understand it a lot better now.  The new mini-window gets the
> > minibuffers only because I had minibuffer-follows-selected-frame set to
> > t.  With either of the other values, the minibuffers remain on the old
> > inaccessible frame.  This is not good.

> Can't you move them from those inaccessible frames to this one?

The actual moving of the minibuffers isn't the problem ....

> > > > Could it be that the last frame isn't actually deleted from the Emacs
> > > > daemon when clicking on its close button?

> > > I think indeed that's what happens, because otherwise clicking there
> > > would have shut down Emacs -- which it doesn't in the daemon case.

> > Yes, this is the case.  I would dearly like to find a way of determining
> > if this last frame is still visible, or iconified, or whatever, as
> > opposed to inaccessible.

> I think this is the initial frame that exists in every Emacs session
> when it starts, except that in the daemon we don't delete it.  It's a
> non-GUI frame which exists just to keep code that expects some frame
> to exist happy.

This initial frame gets used as a normal frame when one calls

    $ emacsclient foo

for the first time.  It stays in use until one clicks on its close
button (I think this is actually the close button of the containing
xterm).  When a new GUI frame is brought up by

    M-: (run-at-time 10 nil #'make-frame '((window-system . x)))

, the initial frame may or may not have been "closed" by clicking its
close button.  I think you're telling me that it's not possible to
distinguish these two cases.  If so, that's surely a defect in Emacs.

> > The old frame in the above recipe was a -nw frame, effectively a
> > TTY, and `frame-visible-p' returns t for it, even though it is not
> > even displayable (it's containing shell has gone).

> We don't have a means of knowing whether a TTY frame is displayed, it
> conceptually always is.

Perhaps we should create some means of knowing this?  Maybe in
handle-delete-frame, where Emacs has determined there is only one frame
left, before calling save-buffers-kill-emacs we could mark the last
frame's f->visible to "not visible".  Or maybe set up a special non-zero
dummy value for f->terminal.  Or something like that.

> > Hmm.  There is effectively nothing about the effect of Emacs as a daemon
> > in Elisp.

> There's nothing special about that, just some implementation details.

OK.  I'm not sure I agree, but it's not really a big point.

-- 
Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).



  reply	other threads:[~2021-03-20 10:28 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 254+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-02-06 23:25 Stop frames stealing eachothers' minibuffers! jakanakaevangeli
2021-02-07 12:55 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-02-07 16:44   ` jakanakaevangeli
2021-02-07 20:26     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-02-07 23:48       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-03-13 18:31         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-02-08 12:53       ` jakanakaevangeli
2021-02-11 11:44         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-02-11 14:29           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-12  9:48             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-13 18:23             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-13 19:39               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-13 20:24                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-13 20:52                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-14 18:26                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-14 18:48                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-14 20:32                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-13 20:53               ` jakanakaevangeli
2021-03-14 19:17                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-14 21:23                   ` Miha Rihtaršič
2021-03-17 19:32                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-17 19:55                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-17 20:19                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-18 11:27                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-18 11:46                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-18 15:51                               ` martin rudalics
2021-03-18 16:58                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-18 18:44                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-19 11:40                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-19 12:33                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-19 15:35                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-19 15:59                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-20 10:28                                             ` Alan Mackenzie [this message]
2021-03-20 10:49                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-20 12:24                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-20 12:49                                                   ` Miha Rihtaršič
2021-03-20 13:59                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-21 10:30                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-21 10:38                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-21 10:40                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-21 14:49                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-21 15:00                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-21 15:43                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-21 16:17                                                             ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2021-03-21 16:37                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-20 12:50                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-20 13:51                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-20 13:55                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-03-20 14:01                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-03-20 14:12                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-03-21 15:44                       ` Miha Rihtaršič
2021-03-21 17:03                         ` Alan Mackenzie
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-02-03 15:20 jakanakaevangeli
2021-02-06 15:52 ` Alan Mackenzie
     [not found] <<20201031194419.GC5887@ACM>
     [not found] ` <<834kmago8m.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]   ` <<20201031203914.GD5887@ACM>
     [not found]     ` <<835z6ogc1h.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]       ` <<20201101195313.GA6190@ACM>
     [not found]         ` <<83sg9rd6cp.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]           ` <<20201102185147.GC7297@ACM>
     [not found]             ` <<83mtzzd0s3.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <<20201103210853.GA21923@ACM>
     [not found]                 ` <<83ft5pax2p.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                   ` <<20201104173954.GA14535@ACM>
     [not found]                     ` <<m31rh2pnws.fsf@leonis4.robolove.meer.net>
     [not found]                       ` <<m28sbas208.fsf@gmail.com>
     [not found]                         ` <<83v9ed3nbw.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                           ` <<m21rh1prap.fsf@gmail.com>
     [not found]                             ` <<CF5D4DFC-5288-4D2C-AF4A-A7D1B267CAFF@gnu.org>
     [not found]                               ` <<44261efc-da8d-44f2-9a9a-200d1683b313@default>
     [not found]                                 ` <<jwvzh3pvvmi.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>
     [not found]                                   ` <<83imad0yb3.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-11-10 20:17                                     ` Drew Adams
2020-10-13 19:02 Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-13 19:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-13 19:51   ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-13 20:25     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-13 20:44       ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-13 21:02         ` Drew Adams
2020-10-14 14:34         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 16:02           ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-14 16:14             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 16:35               ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-14 17:05                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 18:45                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-14 18:58                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 19:49                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-15 13:44                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15 18:01                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-15 18:18                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-21 15:19                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-21 16:49                                 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-21 19:13                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-21 18:32                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-21 19:38                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-21 20:04                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-22 16:14                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-30 22:09                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-31  7:25                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-31 16:14                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-31 16:45                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-31 19:44                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-10-31 20:00                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-31 20:39                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-01 18:35                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-01 19:53                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-02 17:19                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-02 18:51                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-02 19:19                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-03 21:08                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-04 16:47                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-04 17:39                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-09 15:09                                                                   ` Madhu
2020-11-09 20:34                                                                     ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-10  3:25                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-10  8:08                                                                         ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-10  8:52                                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-10 13:21                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-10 17:27                                                                               ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-10 18:26                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-10 22:43                                                                                   ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-11 15:38                                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-10 19:57                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-10 22:54                                                                                   ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-10 23:18                                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-11  7:47                                                                                       ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-11 16:07                                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-11 20:37                                                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-14 13:36                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-14 17:12                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-14 18:48                                                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-14 19:11                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-14 19:24                                                                                                   ` martin rudalics
2020-11-14 21:37                                                                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-15  8:48                                                                                                       ` martin rudalics
2020-11-19 10:40                                                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-19 11:40                                                                                           ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-19 13:30                                                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-20 18:47                                                                                           ` martin rudalics
2020-11-20 21:00                                                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-20 21:36                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-21  9:02                                                                                               ` martin rudalics
2020-11-21 10:27                                                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-21 11:55                                                                                                   ` martin rudalics
2020-11-21 12:45                                                                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-21 15:53                                                                                                       ` martin rudalics
2020-11-22 10:59                                                                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-22 15:13                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-22 17:11                                                                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-22 19:58                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-22 17:57                                                                                                           ` martin rudalics
2020-11-22 18:38                                                                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-23  9:10                                                                                                               ` martin rudalics
2020-11-23 13:36                                                                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-23 14:22                                                                                                                   ` martin rudalics
2020-11-23 16:07                                                                                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-23 18:08                                                                                                                       ` martin rudalics
2020-11-23 20:16                                                                                                                         ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-24  8:46                                                                                                                           ` martin rudalics
2020-11-23 20:22                                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-23 20:26                                                                                                                           ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-24  8:47                                                                                                                             ` martin rudalics
2020-11-24  8:46                                                                                                                           ` martin rudalics
2020-11-24 10:25                                                                                                                             ` martin rudalics
2020-11-24 11:37                                                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-24 19:24                                                                                                                                 ` martin rudalics
2020-11-25  9:25                                                                                                                                   ` martin rudalics
2020-11-25 21:09                                                                                                                                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-25 21:31                                                                                                                                       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-25 21:54                                                                                                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-25 22:23                                                                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 10:02                                                                                                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-27 10:36                                                                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 10:47                                                                                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 11:20                                                                                                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-27 12:03                                                                                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 11:14                                                                                                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-27 12:03                                                                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 15:42                                                                                                                                                     ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 15:54                                                                                                                                                       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 17:14                                                                                                                                                         ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 17:43                                                                                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 18:08                                                                                                                                                             ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 20:02                                                                                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 18:50                                                                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-26 15:44                                                                                                                                         ` martin rudalics
2020-11-26 20:32                                                                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27  7:33                                                                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27  9:34                                                                                                                                             ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 10:06                                                                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 10:36                                                                                                                                                 ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 10:43                                                                                                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 15:41                                                                                                                                                     ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 16:19                                                                                                                                                       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 17:14                                                                                                                                                         ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 18:01                                                                                                                                                           ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 18:35                                                                                                                                                             ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 20:05                                                                                                                                                               ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-28 10:45                                                                                                                                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-28 15:35                                                                                                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-28 17:02                                                                                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-28 20:59                                                                                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-28 21:10                                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-28 22:01                                                                                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-28 22:10                                                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-28 22:38                                                                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-29 18:15                                                                                                                                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-27 10:13                                                                                                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-27 10:36                                                                                                                                             ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 11:30                                                                                                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-27 12:29                                                                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-27 13:43                                                                                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-27 14:09                                                                                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-27 15:03                                                                                                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-27 22:00                                                                                                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-27 15:42                                                                                                                                                 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-03 18:10                                                                                                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-03 18:24                                                                                                                                                 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-03 18:42                                                                                                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-03 20:08                                                                                                                                                     ` martin rudalics
2021-01-03 20:43                                                                                                                                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-04  9:20                                                                                                                                                 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-05 18:07                                                                                                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-05 18:53                                                                                                                                                     ` martin rudalics
2021-01-07 17:36                                                                                                                                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-07 18:08                                                                                                                                                         ` Drew Adams
2021-01-07 18:26                                                                                                                                                         ` martin rudalics
2021-01-10  0:53                                                                                                                                                           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-10  1:34                                                                                                                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-10 16:03                                                                                                                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-10 16:04                                                                                                                                                             ` martin rudalics
2021-01-10 17:18                                                                                                                                                               ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-10 17:30                                                                                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-10 17:49                                                                                                                                                                 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-10 18:25                                                                                                                                                                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-10 19:05                                                                                                                                                                     ` martin rudalics
2021-01-06  0:14                                                                                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06  0:48                                                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06  9:40                                                                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 15:52                                                                                                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-07  7:52                                                                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:33                                                                                                                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 13:27                                                                                                                                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-07 23:34                                                                                                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-11-26 15:43                                                                                                                                       ` martin rudalics
2020-11-27 11:53                                                                                                                                         ` Alan Mackenzie
2020-11-24 12:59                                                                                                                               ` Andrii Kolomoiets
2020-11-24 19:24                                                                                                                                 ` martin rudalics
2020-11-21 17:19                                                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-21 18:08                                                                                                   ` martin rudalics
2020-11-11  8:28                                                                                   ` martin rudalics
2020-11-11 18:47                                                                                     ` Drew Adams
2020-11-11 19:10                                                                                       ` martin rudalics
2020-11-10 16:45                                                                             ` Drew Adams
2020-11-10 19:51                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-11-10 20:08                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-11-10 20:12                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2020-10-14 20:17                       ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-14 17:07                 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-13 20:51       ` Andreas Schwab
2020-10-13 21:02         ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-13 22:22         ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-13 22:28   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-14 14:47     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-14 17:22       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-14 17:32         ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-14 17:47           ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15  1:43             ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-14 17:43         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-10-15  1:42           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-10-13 19:22 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2020-10-13 22:25 ` Stefan Monnier

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