From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: not good proposal: "C-z " reserved for users Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 23:56:31 +0300 Message-ID: References: <87r1llsuxq.fsf@robertthorpeconsulting.com> <0e37cf97-b9ee-e3af-16e3-3a312c47e75f@yandex.ru> <329d68a5edb1128c1e5b@heytings.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1522"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/2.0 (3d08634) (2020-11-07) Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: Howard Melman Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Feb 12 21:58:25 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lAfWB-0000HX-T4 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 21:58:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46486 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAfW9-0002XY-L8 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:58:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38000) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAfVX-0002XP-GG for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:57:43 -0500 Original-Received: from stw1.rcdrun.com ([217.170.207.13]:36125) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lAfVU-0004nb-II for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 15:57:43 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:41.202.241.3]) (AUTH: PLAIN securesender, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by stw1.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 000000000001E07B.000000006026EBC1.000017A9; Fri, 12 Feb 2021 13:57:36 -0700 Mail-Followup-To: Howard Melman , help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.170.207.13; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=stw1.rcdrun.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:127869 Archived-At: * Howard Melman [2021-02-12 22:49]: > I'm not a terminal user and I suspect this is changing > something too longstanding to be considered but the subject > is "not good proposal" so ... Raspberry Pi installations worlwide are I guess in millions, people access it remotely through terminal emulators or serial consoles. Virutal Private Servers, dedicate servers are in millions or billions, system administrators access it remotely through terminal emulators or serial consoles. Those are shell users. Shell users expect Ctrl-Z to work and not because of Emacs but because of the basics of shell job controls. When changing a key that would drastically deter compatibility with known conventions one has to consider millions of applications in shell. Ctrl-Z is mentioned as suspending the job in almost every popular shell on GNU/Linux systems and BSD systems. Number of installations of those systems in Internet prevails. Administrators access it through shell. > This then frees up C-x 5 as a prefix key. It's probably a > year too late (though this muscle memory can't be too strong > yet), but I'd move the C-x t tab-bar commands to C-x 5 and > free up the more convenient C-x t prefix for something else. > It's not as convenient as an unbound C-z but it's something. > And it also solves the wasted C-x 5 prefix in a terminal > which no one seems to care about :) I have been using C-x 5 numerous times today and every day, last year and last years. I hope that those user experiences may give you more insights. Jean