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From: Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support>
To: Howard Melman <hmelman@gmail.com>
Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: not good proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2021 23:56:31 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <YCbrf2Ixfa5UAknH@protected.rcdrun.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <lyim6xumtx.fsf@Lumet2.home>

* Howard Melman <hmelman@gmail.com> [2021-02-12 22:49]:
> I'm not a terminal user and I suspect this is changing
> something too longstanding to be considered but the subject
> is "not good proposal" so ...

Raspberry Pi installations worlwide are I guess in millions, people
access it remotely through terminal emulators or serial consoles.

Virutal Private Servers, dedicate servers are in millions or billions,
system administrators access it remotely through terminal emulators or
serial consoles.

Those are shell users. Shell users expect Ctrl-Z to work and not
because of Emacs but because of the basics of shell job controls.

When changing a key that would drastically deter compatibility with
known conventions one has to consider millions of applications in
shell.

Ctrl-Z is mentioned as suspending the job in almost every popular
shell on GNU/Linux systems and BSD systems. Number of installations of
those systems in Internet prevails. Administrators access it through
shell.

> This then frees up C-x 5 as a prefix key.  It's probably a
> year too late (though this muscle memory can't be too strong
> yet), but I'd move the C-x t tab-bar commands to C-x 5 and
> free up the more convenient C-x t prefix for something else.
> It's not as convenient as an unbound C-z but it's something.
> And it also solves the wasted C-x 5 prefix in a terminal
> which no one seems to care about :)

I have been using C-x 5 numerous times today and every day, last year
and last years. I hope that those user experiences may give you more
insights. 

Jean



  reply	other threads:[~2021-02-12 20:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 239+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <1973673328.2493716.1612740554692.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
2021-02-07 23:29 ` Proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users S Boucher via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-07 23:46   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-08  2:06   ` Howard Melman
2021-02-11  1:37     ` Christopher Miles
2021-02-11 13:52       ` Howard Melman
2021-02-11 16:58         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-12  3:31         ` Christopher Miles
2021-02-08  3:31   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-08 16:22     ` Francis Belliveau
2021-02-08 21:19       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-09  0:52         ` Skip Montanaro
2021-02-09  1:03           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-09  5:58           ` Marcin Borkowski
2021-02-09 12:19             ` Skip Montanaro
2021-02-09 13:44               ` Marcus Harnisch
2021-02-09 16:48               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-09 16:53                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-09 17:24                   ` Skip Montanaro
2021-02-09 17:33                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-09 17:43                       ` Skip Montanaro
2021-02-09 17:35                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-09 17:45                       ` Skip Montanaro
2021-02-09 23:55                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-10  1:50                           ` no job control in this shell (was: Proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users) Skip Montanaro
2021-02-10  5:22                             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-10 10:49                   ` Proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users Jean Louis
2021-02-09 17:24                 ` Skip Montanaro
2021-02-11  0:52           ` Francis Belliveau
2021-02-09  5:55       ` Marcin Borkowski
2021-02-09  6:41       ` not good proposal: " Jean Louis
2021-02-09  7:51         ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-10 10:13           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-10 10:43           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-09  8:07         ` Marcin Borkowski
2021-02-10 10:21           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-09  9:13         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-09  9:31           ` C-z, C-c, job control commands [was: not good proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users] tomas
2021-02-09 12:22             ` Skip Montanaro
2021-02-10 10:36           ` not good proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users Jean Louis
2021-02-10 12:46             ` Marcin Borkowski
2021-02-10 19:14               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-10 19:31                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-10 19:42                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-10 19:31                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-10 19:49                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-10 20:20                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-11  7:54                   ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-11  8:30                     ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-11 13:15                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 10:14                         ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-12 13:00                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 16:48                             ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-12 17:33                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-12  8:10                       ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-12 12:37                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-13  7:37                           ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-13  8:50                             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 14:17                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 20:48                             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-13 21:17                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 22:23                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-13 23:38                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-14 18:30                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-02-15  4:23                               ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-13 23:47                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-15  4:49                               ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-15 18:28                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-16  7:18                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-16  7:26                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-11  8:45                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12  5:42                       ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-12  8:44                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12  9:58                           ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-12 12:40                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-12 12:47                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-12 19:07                             ` Howard Melman
2021-02-12 20:56                               ` Jean Louis [this message]
2021-02-12 21:05                                 ` Howard Melman
2021-02-16 12:38                                   ` ken
2021-02-12 21:07                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13  7:54                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13  8:03                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13  9:01                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 14:21                                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-12 20:04                             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-12 20:10                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-12 20:51                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-12 20:45                             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-12 20:57                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13  8:28                                 ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-13  9:56                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 14:43                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 14:55                                       ` math (was: Re: not good proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users) Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 15:08                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 15:20                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 15:29                                             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 20:32                                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 15:09                                         ` Make Super key work in console - was " Jean Louis
2021-02-13 15:23                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-13 15:33                                             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 20:26                                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-16 11:55                                                 ` OT: more praise to Tramp - was: Re: Make Super key work in console - was Re: math ken
2021-02-13 23:43                                             ` console key tutorial, revised (was: Re: Make Super key work in console - was Re: math (was: Re: not good proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users)) Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14  5:17                                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14  6:21                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14  8:05                                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14  8:37                                                     ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-14  9:36                                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 13:43                                                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 14:36                                                           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14  8:58                                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 10:38                                                       ` Snippet for website inquiries by using one click on the email address Jean Louis
2021-02-14 13:56                                                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 19:38                                           ` Make Super key work in console Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-15 11:10                                             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-15 16:36                                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-15 18:06                                                 ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-15 18:46                                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-16  6:53                                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-16  7:42                                                     ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-16 11:03                                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-20 14:32                                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-20 15:26                                                         ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-20 15:46                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-20 16:07                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 16:16                                                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-20 16:38                                                                 ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-21  5:31                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-21  7:18                                                                     ` Yuri Khan
2021-02-21 12:40                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-20 16:49                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-20 17:27                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 18:13                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-20 18:19                                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-20 21:14                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-21  3:32                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-21 20:11                                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-02-21  4:56                                                           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-21  5:06                                                             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-21  5:42                                                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-21  6:10                                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-22  4:59                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-24 15:37                                                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-12 20:26                           ` not good proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users Jean Louis
2021-02-12 21:08                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-13  7:59                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13 12:30                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-13  7:12                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-13  8:37                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13  9:09                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-02-13 10:14                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-13  8:17                           ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-14  0:35                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14  1:54                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14  7:58                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14  8:33                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14  9:34                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 13:18                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 14:29                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 15:26                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 17:22                                             ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 17:56                                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-15  4:12                                           ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-15 18:15                                             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-15 18:24                                               ` tomas
2021-02-16  1:30                                               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-16  6:05                                               ` Stefan Möding
2021-02-16 21:58                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-16  7:13                                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-16 22:07                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-20 14:39                                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-20 19:14                                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-17  8:55                                               ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-17 23:23                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-18  6:29                                                   ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-20 14:54                                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-20 19:21                                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-21  6:02                                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-21  6:21                                                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14  8:03                                 ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14  8:46                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 10:21                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 13:27                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 10:24                                     ` handling viewport in HTML - was " Jean Louis
2021-02-14 13:48                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 14:37                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 15:21                                           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 16:26                                             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 19:44                                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 19:50                                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 13:11                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 13:16                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14  7:58                               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14  8:43                                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 10:16                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 13:21                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 14:31                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-14 22:13                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-15  0:39                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-15  2:23                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-15  6:16                                       ` Who use C-x u or C-/ for undo? Who uses C-z for undo? Jean Louis
2021-02-15 17:59                                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-16  6:52                                           ` Jean Louis
2021-02-15 17:56                                       ` not good proposal: "C-z <letter>" reserved for users Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-15 18:03                                         ` tomas
2021-02-15  6:06                                     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-15 18:31                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-16  7:22                                         ` Jean Louis
2021-02-15  4:18                                   ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-15  5:51                                   ` Jean Louis
2021-02-15 18:20                                     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-16  6:57                                       ` Jean Louis
2021-02-16 22:02                                         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 11:28                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-02-14 12:55                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 13:14                                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-14 20:22                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-14 20:49                                       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-11 14:32                     ` Jean Louis
2021-02-11 16:58                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-02-12  7:18                       ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-12 17:51                         ` Drew Adams
2021-02-13  7:46                           ` Robert Thorpe
2021-02-08 10:03   ` Proposal: " Colin Baxter
2021-02-08 20:20     ` Leo Butler
2021-02-09  6:02     ` Marcin Borkowski
2021-02-09 12:23       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-09 12:41         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-09 12:56           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-09 13:04             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-02-10 10:54               ` Jean Louis
2021-02-09 13:05             ` Bastian Beranek
2021-02-09 15:59             ` Skip Montanaro
2021-02-09 16:11               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-09 16:19                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-09 20:14               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-02-09 20:50                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2021-02-09 20:18               ` Joost Kremers
2021-02-10 10:57               ` Jean Louis

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