From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Will Mengarini Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Morally equivalent Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2022 03:16:17 -0700 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4574"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: John Haman Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Oct 24 08:48:28 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1omrG5-0000wB-PI for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 24 Oct 2022 08:48:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omm8y-0003dE-Dv for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2022 21:20:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omY1q-0004jO-2E for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2022 06:16:26 -0400 Original-Received: from mail.eskimo.com ([204.122.16.222]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omY1m-0000Gm-VJ for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Oct 2022 06:16:25 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=eskimo.com; s=default; t=1666520177; bh=3UnD5hyLW0liTeMvaJ+9TffwLGYk8KWxPuRlMPygW8U=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=iqt1Bju1NoB3/fVZkBROlkjUlPgOctI5ZiWbLb/wCWZgITa99tyU+hBmtbHi8ufkF TCJ51u24HOlSyBe3fwcKU+CcSdtHGgpwkFKwqzieCjcLPVTGsEdum8oq7ZO5b42TTR F6mnqpo7ZiZVzclPrKMj1M11JjrCU3ECABxyV0bKIk60Rax0D2U82+iY8Pwf7w9f2r cELErko3NDInY3W1W6OOkeC+hPH7W7vcqRSfFaahhmXVTMld3I1Aq/ZxzQomfEYY7j 9Z+DoukbPLn9sMqnsOja35f2RnxG3RVc0t/gzxdS7HUUUv9ZbU+YnsdAErk2LyJd9+ BLJ8sm/qx5KBA== Original-Received: from eskimo.com (debian.eskimo.com [204.122.16.15]) by mail.eskimo.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 7994B3CA5FD; Sun, 23 Oct 2022 03:16:17 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: (nullmailer pid 1451625 invoked by uid 25013); Sun, 23 Oct 2022 10:16:17 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 0.103.6 at mail.eskimo.com X-Virus-Status: Clean Received-SPF: pass client-ip=204.122.16.222; envelope-from=seldon@eskimo.com; helo=mail.eskimo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:140311 Archived-At: * John Haman [22-10/15=Sa 22:45 -0400]: > The documentation for push is > >> push is a Lisp macro in 'subr.el'. >> >> (push NEWELT PLACE) >> >> Add NEWELT to the list stored in the generalized variable PLACE. >> This is morally equivalent to (setf PLACE (cons NEWELT PLACE)), >> except that PLACE is evaluated only once (after NEWELT). >> >> Other relevant functions are documented in the list group. >> Probably introduced at or before Emacs version 21.1. > > What is a 'moral equivalence' in Emacs Lisp? The phrase "morally equivalent" is intended to be a humorous reference to . Back in a workplace in the 1970s, I asked whether some printer was a DECwriter or "the moral equivalent of a DECwriter" (meaning a functionally equivalent printer from different manufacturer), and got a laugh. The phrase was funny because the speech that popularized it was widely considered to be overly bombastic, and a failure in achieving its objectives; this was why "Moral Equivalent Of War" was popularly referred to by the acronym "MEOW". (Note that the general prediction made by that speech, that an energy crisis would worsen, came true, and many of the speech's recommendations have been followed. But that is irrelevant to the prevailing attitude at the time; it was that attitude that resulted in the comic implication.) Consequently, the word "equivalent" and cognates were often embellished as "morally equivalent" and cognates; but this was merely a comic flourish without semantic import. But that was half a century ago! Now, nobody remembers it, and I read this whole thread without seeing a link to the speech that would explain it. Even with that link, you had to live through those times to grok the contempt for U.S President Jimmy Carter that made him a one-term president and ushered in 12 years of Republican presidency. (Carter had tried to be what could be described as a hard-ass liberal, thereby alienating everybody across the political spectrum.) So, the documentation should be patched to remove the comic archaism. Comedy in documentation needs to consider its expected lifespan. Even short-lived documentation often has a target audience that is busy solving problems, and is uninterested in jokes. When the expected lifespan of the documentation is most conveniently measured in centuries (!), comedy leads to threads like this. -- The quote "anyone who thinks people lack originality should watch them folding roadmaps", attributed to Franklin Jopnes, confuses me because although I am aware that roadmaps can be installed on folding devices, folding the device renders the roadmap invisible, leaving only the navigation voice (e.g "turn left at the next intersection") and necessitating unquestioning obedience to it, demonstrating a lack of originality that seems to contradict the conversational implicature entailed in the original quote.