From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#58634: Long delay with blank screen whilst loading desktop at emacs startup Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 12:20:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8335bhw68r.fsf@gnu.org> <83zgdpuq3b.fsf@gnu.org> <83r0z1uju2.fsf@gnu.org> <83lep9ugyi.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6zwv0ft.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5235"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 58634@debbugs.gnu.org, juri@linkov.net To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 22 14:27:31 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1omDb8-0001FS-TL for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 14:27:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omDV1-0001BY-5I; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 08:21:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omDUt-0001B8-I7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 08:21:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1omDUs-00069f-5Y for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 08:21:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1omDUr-00055W-OU for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 08:21:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 12:21:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 58634 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 58634-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B58634.166644122919503 (code B ref 58634); Sat, 22 Oct 2022 12:21:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 58634) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Oct 2022 12:20:29 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:39857 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1omDUK-00054V-Lu for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 08:20:29 -0400 Original-Received: from mx3.muc.de ([193.149.48.5]:39778) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1omDUI-00054G-VW for 58634@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 08:20:27 -0400 Original-Received: (qmail 63841 invoked by uid 3782); 22 Oct 2022 14:20:19 +0200 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (p4fe15e41.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [79.225.94.65]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 14:20:19 +0200 Original-Received: (qmail 10847 invoked by uid 1000); 22 Oct 2022 12:20:18 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <83h6zwv0ft.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:246038 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 09:26:14 +0300, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Fri, 21 Oct 2022 20:11:12 +0000 > > Cc: juri@linkov.net, 58634@debbugs.gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > I'm even okay with adding a hook after each buffer is restored, if > > > that will make you happy. I just don't want these messages (or > > > anything similar) show by default, because no one wants them badly > > > enough. I want them. Stefan Kangas wants them. We don't know how many other people want them, even amongst Emacs developers. If you don't want the messages enabled by default, why not include the facility disabled by default, so that users can enable it when they do want it? > > As a general principle: > > When an operation can take a while to finish, you should inform the > > user about the progress it makes. This way the user can estimate > > remaining time and clearly see that Emacs is busy working, not hung. > > [Emacs Lisp manual, page "Progress"] > In my configurations, desktop.el upholds that promise. Yours is an unusual configuration. Most people don't hook up flyspell to text modes, and surely even fewer enable GC messages. But is that really the reason for your unhappiness with my proposal? That it isn't useful for you personally? > If you are unhappy even with the additional hook proposal (you didn't > say), then I guess we have nothing more to discuss here that could be > useful. The additional hook is a red herring. To be fully useful, it would need to be passed the current filename and the total number of buffers being restored. That would involve more complicated code than is currently in my patch (even if not by a lot). Mainly, it would not be particularly beneficial for users in general, unless you allowed me to include such a hook function in desktop.el, which I suspect you would not. > > What is a mystery is how desktop.el could have survived so long without > > the progress indication recommended by the Elisp manual. > Once again, when I restore my sessions, I see a flurry of messages > that inform me of what's going on. My sessions leave Emacs hung for a large portion of a minute, without messages. I suspect my configuration is nearer a typical one than yours is. > And my sessions are very large, so they take a relatively long time to > restore. > There's nothing wrong with desktop.el per se, not in the common use > cases. Clearly I disagree, here. > > > We may not know how common the display issue is, but we do know how > > > common the irritation is: extremely uncommon, to say the least. > > We do not know. All we know is that few people have complained > "Few" as in "none". I have complained. Stefan Kangas was unhappy enough with the code that he wrote his own patch, essentially the same as mine, to solve the problem. That's two people already. > Again, this part of the discussion is not useful. It was not me that introduced lack of complaint as a reason for not improving Emacs. > If an additional hook could fulfill your needs, please feel free to > install such a change, and let's move on to more important stuff. As above, this hook would be not useful to users in general, and be more complicated than my current patch. It would need documentation in the Elisp manual. It would not be very useful to me personally, either. As I said earlier, I'm incorporating my patch into all my personal versions of Emacs from now on. My new code is a clear improvement on the current desktop.el, and fulfills a clear need. No real disadvantages of it have yet been pointed out. It seems you are not going to allow this patch to be installed, yet have given no plausible reason for that. So be it. -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).