From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alan Mackenzie Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#61847: debug-early-backtrace only works some of the time. Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2023 17:31:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83v8jkfz04.fsf@gnu.org> <83edq8fokr.fsf@gnu.org> <838rggflnj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="13897"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 61847@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 01 18:32:29 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pXQJZ-0003RX-JR for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 18:32:29 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXQJP-0004cW-W4; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:32:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXQJ9-0004Z6-3s for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:32:14 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pXQJ8-0005Zb-Kw for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:32:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pXQJ8-00034o-5N for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:32:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Alan Mackenzie Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2023 17:32:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 61847 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 61847-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B61847.167769189311789 (code B ref 61847); Wed, 01 Mar 2023 17:32:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 61847) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 Mar 2023 17:31:33 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54816 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pXQIf-000345-3b for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:31:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mx3.muc.de ([193.149.48.5]:15183) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1pXQId-00033m-GM for 61847@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 12:31:32 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail 56005 invoked by uid 3782); 1 Mar 2023 18:31:24 +0100 Original-Received: from acm.muc.de (pd953ac29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [217.83.172.41]) (using STARTTLS) by colin.muc.de (tmda-ofmipd) with ESMTP; Wed, 01 Mar 2023 18:31:23 +0100 Original-Received: (qmail 3891 invoked by uid 1000); 1 Mar 2023 17:31:23 -0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <838rggflnj.fsf@gnu.org> X-Submission-Agent: TMDA/1.3.x (Ph3nix) X-Primary-Address: acm@muc.de X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:257088 Archived-At: Hello, Eli. On Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 19:04:32 +0200, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2023 16:46:52 +0000 > > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, 61847@debbugs.gnu.org > > From: Alan Mackenzie > > > Some fancy Lisp facilities are already available anyway. And I see no > > > reason for this requirement in this case. > > In a situation where Emacs does not bootstrap, instead crashing during > > the loading or compiling of the Lisp files, we need a debugging tool > > which isn't dependent upon those Lisp files. That is what debug-early.el > > is intended to be. > You are saying that only Lisp code can crash and make debugging > harder? Have you never seen crashes inside prin1? Of course not. I'm saying that Lisp code, in early bootstrap, DOES crash, and for that we need a suitable tool, namely debug-early.el. For other sorts of crashes we use other tools. And no, I've never seen a crash inside prin1. That function was debugged long before I started hacking on Emacs. > Any code that prints arbitrary objects can crash. That fact is not a > useful argument for or against a particular alternative for such > printing. > Anyway, I don't see any point in continuing this argument. It is > clear that we disagree here, and the nature of the disagreement is > also very clear. Alright, but we still have a bug to fix. I think (but I'm not sure) that you agree that cl-prin1 in its current state isn't currently adequate for debug-early.el. You have rejected my proposed fix. So what alternative do you propose? -- Alan Mackenzie (Nuremberg, Germany).