Jumping from one position to other position

Jumping from one position to other position

[Jean Louis]

All the time I have to jump from one function to other function. What
I used so far is C-SPC C-SPC to leave mark at the point and deactivate
it. Then I can jump to other places and come back with C-u SPC.

What I would like is to keep somehow automatically source position as
new mark, when I do C-u SPC at position X that I jump to position Y,
and then from Y with C-u SPC again back to X.

But Emacs does not work this way.

If anybody have better way of jumping from one place A to place B and
returning again to place A, and again to place B, let me know.

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Michael Heerdegen]

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> If anybody have better way of jumping from one place A to place B and
> returning again to place A, and again to place B, let me know.

(1) Most obvious: Use two windows.

(2) Use registers.  I've created "hotkeys" to save and restore 3
positions in 3 registers (I use registers A, B and C for that).  One-key
sequences, of course, should that be.  I chose H-kp-1, C-kp-1,
H-kp-2, ...

(3) A very smart "go to last change" package would ease that pain.  I
once tried to implement something, but finding a good heuristic that
behaves well under different circumstances is surprisingly hard.

(2a) Instead of using registers, you can also use something that jumps
to the old position and stores the new one at the same time with one
command, a "switch between two places" command so to say.  Implementing
something like that is obviously easy.  I already did and am now using
(1) and (2) instead (probably because these are much more general tools,
so I have to remember less).


Regards,

Michael.

RE: Jumping from one position to other position

[arthur miller]

Would this be useful: to you guys?

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/VisibleBookmarks

https://github.com/joodland/bm



-------- Originalmeddelande --------
Från: Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de>
Datum: 2020-12-05 23:12 (GMT+01:00)
Till: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Ämne: Re: Jumping from one position to other position

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> If anybody have better way of jumping from one place A to place B and
> returning again to place A, and again to place B, let me know.

(1) Most obvious: Use two windows.

(2) Use registers.  I've created "hotkeys" to save and restore 3
positions in 3 registers (I use registers A, B and C for that).  One-key
sequences, of course, should that be.  I chose H-kp-1, C-kp-1,
H-kp-2, ...

(3) A very smart "go to last change" package would ease that pain.  I
once tried to implement something, but finding a good heuristic that
behaves well under different circumstances is surprisingly hard.

(2a) Instead of using registers, you can also use something that jumps
to the old position and stores the new one at the same time with one
command, a "switch between two places" command so to say.  Implementing
something like that is obviously easy.  I already did and am now using
(1) and (2) instead (probably because these are much more general tools,
so I have to remember less).


Regards,

Michael.

RE: Jumping from one position to other position

[Drew Adams]

> Would this be useful: to you guys?
> 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/VisibleBook
> marks__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!ODGLJD76Thc3LdYv_ydFjyNk6oCSDgKQgztru60n9HlKf5Mz
> z6au_C1lSKZwcFX4$
> 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/joodland/bm__;!!GqivPVa7
> Brio!ODGLJD76Thc3LdYv_ydFjyNk6oCSDgKQgztru60n9HlKf5Mzz6au_C1lSAUW4iQP$

FWIW, Bookmark+ has the same ability - even easier.

Yes, you can navigate around using bookmarks.  And
if they're autonamed then you don't need to name
them.  And if they're highlighted you can see where
they are.  And if they're temporary bookmarks you
don't need to worry about them getting saved when
you save bookmarks.

And, like markers, bookmarks move along with the
surrounding text as you edit.

RE: Jumping from one position to other position

[arthur miller]

Drew, why am I not surprised Bookmark+ does that too? :-)

I am sorry I didn't recommend your library, I had a feeling you will come in and point out Bookmark+ can do it better;  but I actually didn't know if it was applicable in this particular case.

By the way what FWIW stands for? For What I ...?


-------- Originalmeddelande --------
Från: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Datum: 2020-12-05 23:54 (GMT+01:00)
Till: arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com>, Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de>, help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Ämne: RE: Jumping from one position to other position

> Would this be useful: to you guys?
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/VisibleBook
> marks__;!!GqivPVa7Brio!ODGLJD76Thc3LdYv_ydFjyNk6oCSDgKQgztru60n9HlKf5Mz
> z6au_C1lSKZwcFX4$
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/joodland/bm__;!!GqivPVa7
> Brio!ODGLJD76Thc3LdYv_ydFjyNk6oCSDgKQgztru60n9HlKf5Mzz6au_C1lSAUW4iQP$

FWIW, Bookmark+ has the same ability - even easier.

Yes, you can navigate around using bookmarks.  And
if they're autonamed then you don't need to name
them.  And if they're highlighted you can see where
they are.  And if they're temporary bookmarks you
don't need to worry about them getting saved when
you save bookmarks.

And, like markers, bookmarks move along with the
surrounding text as you edit.

RE: Jumping from one position to other position

[Drew Adams]

To be clear, I don't expect anyone to recommend anything particular. Everything has advantages and disadvantages. And everyone has their use cases and preferences.

 

"FWIW" = "for what it's worth". It' similar to FYI. It has the connotation that it's really up to you (listener, not speaker) to judge how worthwhile you find the info to be.

 

.        https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/for-what-it-s-worth

.        https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/for%20what%20it's%20worth

.        https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/for+what+it%27s+worth

.        https://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=for+what+it%27s+worth

 

(Oh, and FWIW ;-), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_What_It%27s_Worth.)

 

Drew, why am I not surprised Bookmark+ does that too? :-) 

 

I am sorry I didn't recommend your library, I had a feeling you will come in and point out Bookmark+ can do it better;  but I actually didn't know if it was applicable in this particular case.

 

By the way what FWIW stands for? For What I ...?

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Jean Louis]

* arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com> [2020-12-06 01:22]:
> Would this be useful: to you guys?
> 
> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/VisibleBookmarks
> 
> https://github.com/joodland/bm

That is great solution! That is exactly how it should be that user can
also visually see a point and quickly go back and forth.

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Arthur Miller]

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> * arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com> [2020-12-06 01:22]:
>> Would this be useful: to you guys?
>> 
>> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/VisibleBookmarks
>> 
>> https://github.com/joodland/bm
>
> That is great solution! That is exactly how it should be that user can
> also visually see a point and quickly go back and forth.
Cool, glad it suits you.

Consider checking Drew's Bookmark+ too. It does lot's of things, some of
which you might find useful! :-).

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Jean Louis]

* Arthur Miller <arthur.miller@live.com> [2020-12-07 22:42]:
> Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:
> 
> > * arthur miller <arthur.miller@live.com> [2020-12-06 01:22]:
> >> Would this be useful: to you guys?
> >> 
> >> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/VisibleBookmarks
> >> 
> >> https://github.com/joodland/bm
> >
> > That is great solution! That is exactly how it should be that user can
> > also visually see a point and quickly go back and forth.
> Cool, glad it suits you.
> 
> Consider checking Drew's Bookmark+ too. It does lot's of things, some of
> which you might find useful! :-).

I have it and just not currently using it.

The bm package I can maybe now use with Hyper key on Caps_Lock and I
get Caps Lock with shift Caps Lock.

For example I could then bind H-q to go back H-a to go forward or
maybe better H-a and H-s as it is maybe easier accessible.

clear      lock 
clear   control
clear      mod1
clear      mod2
clear      mod3
clear      mod4
clear      mod5
keycode      66 = Hyper_L Caps_Lock
keycode	    108 = Alt_R
add     control = Control_L Control_R
add        mod1 = Alt_L Alt_R Meta_L
add        mod2 = Num_Lock
add        mod3 = Hyper_L
add        mod4 = Super_L Super_R
add        mod5 = Mode_switch ISO_Level3_Shift

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> writes:

> Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:
>
>> If anybody have better way of jumping from one place A to place B and
>> returning again to place A, and again to place B, let me know.
>
> (1) Most obvious: Use two windows.
>
> (2) Use registers.  I've created "hotkeys" to save and restore 3
> positions in 3 registers (I use registers A, B and C for that).  One-key
> sequences, of course, should that be.  I chose H-kp-1, C-kp-1,
> H-kp-2, ...
>
> (3) A very smart "go to last change" package would ease that pain.  I
> once tried to implement something, but finding a good heuristic that
> behaves well under different circumstances is surprisingly hard.

I've often wanted this, and sometimes end up using undo-plus-redo
to get there. It only just occurred to me that `buffer-undo-list' has
all this information -- was that what you used? What difficulties did
you run into?

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Michael Heerdegen]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> I've often wanted this, and sometimes end up using undo-plus-redo
> to get there. It only just occurred to me that `buffer-undo-list' has
> all this information -- was that what you used? What difficulties did
> you run into?

Yes, that works, it's perfect data, that's not the problem.

If have typed, say, 4 lines somewhere, you have to call the command a
lot of times until it jumps to some other place.  Not practical (I always
ended up having hit the key one time too often.  Makes you angry).

Then you can say, ok, just go to any line once.  Until you have inserted
something with lots of lines, and it visits most of them. 

Then you try to improve your heuristic further, and there's always a
situation where it is impossible to jump back to some place you want to
because the heuristic sorted it out, e.g. because it's directly next to
some other change or so.  I then used a prefix arg so that the user
could soften the heuristic explicitly, but then I noted that it's
simpler to use registers and other tools that are at least no heuristic
based black boxes.

I've also tried the non-chronological approach - visit changes in
position order - but I also didn't like it.

When I'm looking for older changes, I use Magit Wip mode with Ediff, to
display the changes of the last n minutes.  After exiting Ediff I can
hit a key to go to the line according to the latest selected diff.  For
shorter time periods I use registers now.

Michael.

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> I've often wanted this, and sometimes end up using undo-plus-redo
>> to get there. It only just occurred to me that `buffer-undo-list' has
>> all this information -- was that what you used? What difficulties did
>> you run into?
>
> Yes, that works, it's perfect data, that's not the problem.
>
> If have typed, say, 4 lines somewhere, you have to call the command a
> lot of times until it jumps to some other place.  Not practical (I always
> ended up having hit the key one time too often.  Makes you angry).
>
> Then you can say, ok, just go to any line once.  Until you have inserted
> something with lots of lines, and it visits most of them. 
>
> Then you try to improve your heuristic further, and there's always a
> situation where it is impossible to jump back to some place you want to
> because the heuristic sorted it out, e.g. because it's directly next to
> some other change or so.  I then used a prefix arg so that the user
> could soften the heuristic explicitly, but then I noted that it's
> simpler to use registers and other tools that are at least no heuristic
> based black boxes.

Wow, that does sound hairy. I've never wanted anything but to go to the
previous change (a command I'm off to implement now using
`buffer-undo-list'), so I expect less frustration.

I also really like your idea of "hotkeys" for a few register positions
-- I love registers and use them as much as I can, but the keybindings
do feel cumbersome.

> I've also tried the non-chronological approach - visit changes in
> position order - but I also didn't like it.
>
> When I'm looking for older changes, I use Magit Wip mode with Ediff, to
> display the changes of the last n minutes.  After exiting Ediff I can
> hit a key to go to the line according to the latest selected diff.  For
> shorter time periods I use registers now.

I assume you've tried undo-tree, too...

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Stefan Möding]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> Wow, that does sound hairy. I've never wanted anything but to go to the
> previous change (a command I'm off to implement now using
> `buffer-undo-list'), so I expect less frustration.

I’ve used the "goto-chg" package (it’s on MELPA) occasionally. There is
also an entry on the Emacs Wiki concerning this topic:

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GotoChg

-- 
Stefan

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Eric Abrahamsen]

Stefan Möding <s.moeding@gmail.com> writes:

> Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:
>
>> Wow, that does sound hairy. I've never wanted anything but to go to the
>> previous change (a command I'm off to implement now using
>> `buffer-undo-list'), so I expect less frustration.
>
> I’ve used the "goto-chg" package (it’s on MELPA) occasionally. There is
> also an entry on the Emacs Wiki concerning this topic:
>
> https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GotoChg

There's nothing you can think of doing with Emacs that doesn't already
have a package for doing it :) That's really an amazing amount of code,
though.

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Michael Heerdegen]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> > https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GotoChg
>
> There's nothing you can think of doing with Emacs that doesn't already
> have a package for doing it :) That's really an amazing amount of code,
> though.

Yeah, that was also my first step, before I tried to make something
better (and failed).

It's probably exactly what you were looking for.

Regards,

Michael.

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Michael Heerdegen]

Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes:

> I assume you've tried undo-tree, too...

I like it and use it and also hacked it a bit.  Too bad the author had
not much time recently.

It's a bit hard to hack it.  For example, the time stamps of the
entries.  They get updated whenever you only look at the according
entry.  Sooner or later it gets a mess.  It's hard to change things like
that.  I think there is room for improving the user interface.

Regards,

Michael.

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Jean Louis]

* Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> [2020-12-06 01:12]:
> Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:
> 
> > If anybody have better way of jumping from one place A to place B and
> > returning again to place A, and again to place B, let me know.
> 
> (1) Most obvious: Use two windows.
> 
> (2) Use registers.  I've created "hotkeys" to save and restore 3
> positions in 3 registers (I use registers A, B and C for that).  One-key
> sequences, of course, should that be.  I chose H-kp-1, C-kp-1,
> H-kp-2, ...
> 
> (3) A very smart "go to last change" package would ease that pain.  I
> once tried to implement something, but finding a good heuristic that
> behaves well under different circumstances is surprisingly hard.

Maybe I just do not know how to use built-in functions like C-SPC
C-SPC to leave mark, I use it all the time, but maybe I miss
something.

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Michael Heerdegen]

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> Maybe I just do not know how to use built-in functions like C-SPC
> C-SPC to leave mark, I use it all the time, but maybe I miss
> something.

What do you do when you need the mark for, well, marking, because you
need to copy and paste between the two positions?

Using the mark reminds me of the more general concept of the
global-mark-ring, with a bit of tuning one can also use it to find back
to recent positions conveniently, even across buffers.

Regards,

Michael.

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Marcin Borkowski]

On 2020-12-05, at 23:11, Michael Heerdegen <michael_heerdegen@web.de> wrote:

> Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:
>
>> If anybody have better way of jumping from one place A to place B and
>> returning again to place A, and again to place B, let me know.

> (2) Use registers.  I've created "hotkeys" to save and restore 3

This.  Also, avy.

Hth,

-- 
Marcin Borkowski
http://mbork.pl

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Dmitry Gutov]

On 05.12.2020 20:23, Jean Louis wrote:
> All the time I have to jump from one function to other function. What
> I used so far is C-SPC C-SPC to leave mark at the point and deactivate
> it. Then I can jump to other places and come back with C-u SPC.
> 
> What I would like is to keep somehow automatically source position as
> new mark, when I do C-u SPC at position X that I jump to position Y,
> and then from Y with C-u SPC again back to X.
> 
> But Emacs does not work this way.
> 
> If anybody have better way of jumping from one place A to place B and
> returning again to place A, and again to place B, let me know.

Sounds like you want something like the back-forward navigation akin to 
what we have in web browsers.

There are several packages that implement this. The one I've been using 
lately is https://github.com/boyw165/history/.

RE: Jumping from one position to other position

[Drew Adams]

> All the time I have to jump from one function to other function. What
> I used so far is C-SPC C-SPC to leave mark at the point and deactivate
> it. Then I can jump to other places and come back with C-u SPC.
> 
> What I would like is to keep somehow automatically source position as
> new mark, when I do C-u SPC at position X that I jump to position Y,
> and then from Y with C-u SPC again back to X.
> 
> But Emacs does not work this way.
> 
> If anybody have better way of jumping from one place A to place B and
> returning again to place A, and again to place B, let me know.

(`C-SPC') `C-x C-x'  Repeat to move back.
`C-g' do deactivate region.

There are also libraries that give you ways to
browse among the marks, including by choosing
the text surrounding them using completion.
___

Icicles does that, for example, with `C-- C-SPC'.
Completion candidates are the text lines that
include the markers.  (`C-- C-SPC' uses only local
markers, `C-- C-x C-SPC' uses only global markers,
and `C-0 C-SPC' uses all markers).

Because these are multi-commands you can trip among
any number of markers, in any order, during a single
invocation.
___

If you use Isearch+ then you can also have it
set the mark at the start point before searching,
so you can return to it with `C-x C-x' or
`C-u C-SPC'.  You can toggle such mark-setting
anytime during Isearch using `M-s M-SPC'.

(Isearch is often a good way to move around, not
just to search.)
___


https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Icicles

https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/IsearchPlus

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Jean Louis]

* Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> [2020-12-06 00:30]:
> > All the time I have to jump from one function to other function. What
> > I used so far is C-SPC C-SPC to leave mark at the point and deactivate
> > it. Then I can jump to other places and come back with C-u SPC.
> > 
> > What I would like is to keep somehow automatically source position as
> > new mark, when I do C-u SPC at position X that I jump to position Y,
> > and then from Y with C-u SPC again back to X.
> > 
> > But Emacs does not work this way.
> > 
> > If anybody have better way of jumping from one place A to place B and
> > returning again to place A, and again to place B, let me know.
> 
> (`C-SPC') `C-x C-x'  Repeat to move back.
> `C-g' do deactivate region.

Thank you for references.

In some programming cases M-, and M-. can bring me to referenced or
referencing functions. It helps but is not same.

I think maybe to maybe function for a key to remember the current
marker and jump to last marker, then again same key to remember that
other marker and jump to last remembered.

It should be one key like s-m or similar, definitely not two or
combinations of too many keys. F5 would serve me better than current:
C-SPC C-SPC followed by C-u SPC that is not really doing what I mean
but is helpfull.

> There are also libraries that give you ways to
> browse among the marks, including by choosing
> the text surrounding them using completion.

Small stuff is better kept in one's own configuration then relying on
libraries. Then on each Emacs installation I would need to either
remember which is external library or make sure it is installed PLUS
using my own configuration. It is double action which I always try to
prevent.

(info "(emacs) Mark Ring") says:

,----
|    To return to a marked position, use ‘set-mark-command’ with a prefix
| argument: ‘C-u C-<SPC>’.  This moves point to where the mark was, and
| deactivates the mark if it was active.  Each subsequent ‘C-u C-<SPC>’
| jumps to a prior position stored in the mark ring.  The positions you
| move through in this way are not lost; they go to the end of the ring.
`----

Just that I am not satisfied with it. It does not bring me back how I
mean. I am using this for years.

But maybe this can help:

,----
|    The variable ‘mark-ring-max’ specifies the maximum number of entries
| to keep in the mark ring.  This defaults to 16 entries.  If that many
| entries exist and another one is pushed, the earliest one in the list is
| discarded.  Repeating ‘C-u C-<SPC>’ cycles through the positions
| currently in the ring.
`----

Because if I specify `mark-ring-max' to be 2 then maybe this is what I
need. So I will test this feature while programming. Majority of times
I jump back I do not want to jump to previous 3rd or 4th position but
just to previous position and back.

Useful logical jumping would be for me:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 7 8 7 8 7 8
                ~~~~~~~~~~~
		this is where mode of jumping changes

then one could maybe decide to go back to mode to reach again 1-6
positions.

Re: Jumping from one position to other position

[Michael Heerdegen]

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> Because if I specify `mark-ring-max' to be 2 then maybe this is what I
> need.

I had tried to use a similar setup.  I then got crazy when I needed to
jump between more than 2 positions.  That happens more often than you
might expect.  And then you have no tool to rely on again.

That's why I now prefer the register solution: still one key, or two,
but not as limited.

Michael.