From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean Louis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal for an Emacs User Survey Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 22:58:40 +0300 Organization: GNU.Support Message-ID: References: <30addebe-999b-c1cc-a8d8-27aba3fac566@gmx.com> <875z76p4pg.fsf@posteo.net> <20201020113613.GA3969@t400> <87k0vcubl2.fsf@iki.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="19625"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mutt/+ (1036f0e) (2020-10-18) Cc: Thibaut Verron , emacs-devel To: Teemu Likonen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 27 18:54:19 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1kXTAo-0004zL-LG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 18:54:18 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35012 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXTAn-00024j-Lc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:54:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43438) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXSyR-0003iY-Rh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:41:33 -0400 Original-Received: from static.rcdrun.com ([95.85.24.50]:42777) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kXSyO-0003xb-Jy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:41:30 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([::ffff:197.157.0.60]) (AUTH: PLAIN admin, TLS: TLS1.2,256bits,ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) by static.rcdrun.com with ESMTPSA id 00000000002A0B39.000000005F985BA5.00002F5D; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 17:40:51 +0000 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <87k0vcubl2.fsf@iki.fi> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=95.85.24.50; envelope-from=bugs@gnu.support; helo=static.rcdrun.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/10/27 13:40:55 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: 6 X-Spam_score: 0.6 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.049, RCVD_IN_SORBS_WEB=1.5, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:258514 Archived-At: * Teemu Likonen [2020-10-26 20:44]: > I think we should appreciate the fact that the original poster (Adrien > Brochard) actually did something. He is really conducting a survey. He > is not just talking and designing a theoretically and ethically perfect > survey, as the rest of us. > > https://emacssurvey.org/ The bug database https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/pkgreport.cgi?which=pkg&data=emacs is like a pinpointed poll on what people would like to have improved. While the survey is interesting, it went into public with little good preparation now driving users to . Impression is that there was impatience and rush to make the survey or poll. Comparing the Emacs bug system to the survey I see that bug system actually works very well including this mailing list. The type of discussions may seem talky though in background it is very productive and Emacs gets speedily improved. When doing such outreach it would be useful to reference to the bug system and help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org mailing list where every user may ask for general help on Emacs. > He is really conducting a survey. He is not just talking and > designing a theoretically and ethically perfect survey, as the rest > of us. The survey is not well planned and implemented technically. That is beyond theoretical or ethical subjects. Survey gives two options for user to fill it online and to fill the Org file, I did the last and signed it with my GPG key. Example is here: - HOW WOULD YOU CHARACTERIZE YOUR USE OF EMACS? - [X] Use it for work - [X] I use it for serious "hobby" projects - [X] I'm just tinkering - [X] I use it for my studies - [X] Other (please specify) - for browsing Internet - for database management - CRM or Customer Relationship Management - WRS or Website Revision System - for management of mailing lists and marketing The online form offers only one option among those above options. And so on for each section of the survey, there is option list instead of a checklist. To make a survey form like that is maybe 20 minutes to 60 minutes of work and it would cost maybe $5 to $20 to hire somebody to do it, many would do it for free and it would be technically readable and accessible page without any non-free Javascript or third parties being involved. -- Jean Louis