bug#70562: Trouble using Vim under Emacs's ansi-term

bug#70562: Trouble using Vim under Emacs's ansi-term

[C.J.S. Hayward]

I have Emacs 21 as installed from Linux Mint Victoria.

I am a long-time Vim user interested in a proportional font terminal, such as is mostly provided by Emacs Evil mode or local or (ssh) remote Vim, but I have experienced consistent issues using vim under Emacs's ansi-term.

I haven't been able to pin down that if you edit a particular document and attempt a particular set of keystrokes, issues arise. However, I have had issues with Emacs thinking it is one line higher or lower than it really is, so that commenting out a line of JavaScript comments out a different line from what the user intended (and what it appears), and random freezing.

I believe that if you have a volunteer who is comfortable using Vim, and ask said user to use Vim under Emacs's ansi-term for half an hour (I have not been able to discern different behavior between local Vim processes and those ssh'ed into a Linux server), the odd behaviors I have experienced will be reproduced. Based on my own experience, I believe some inappropriate behavior will probably be noticeable in 2-5 minutes, but I mention half an hour as adding slop.


Thanks,


Unworthy Br. Christos Hayward (really, thou / thee / thy / thine), novice at St. Demetrios Orthodox Monastery.

Most recent posting: A Note to Single Evangelical Women

Websites:

C.J.S. Hayward: Official Author Site (Bookshelf)Official Substack
Orthodox Church Fathers
The Powered Access Bible
Scrolls of Wonder

bug#70562: Trouble using Vim under Emacs's ansi-term

[Philip Kaludercic]

"C.J.S. Hayward" <cjsh@cjshayward.com> writes:

> I have Emacs 21 as installed from Linux Mint Victoria.

Do I understand correctly, that you are using Emacs 21, released
somewhere between 2001 and 2005?

> I am a long-time Vim user interested in a proportional font terminal,
> such as is mostly provided by Emacs Evil mode or local or (ssh) remote
> Vim, but I have experienced consistent issues using vim under Emacs's
> ansi-term.
>
> I haven't been able to pin down that if you edit a particular document
> and attempt a particular set of keystrokes, issues arise. However, I
> have had issues with Emacs thinking it is one line higher or lower
> than it really is, so that commenting out a line of JavaScript
> comments out a different line from what the user intended (and what it
> appears), and random freezing.
>
> I believe that if you have a volunteer who is comfortable using Vim,
> and ask said user to use Vim under Emacs's ansi-term for half an hour
> (I have not been able to discern different behavior between local Vim
> processes and those ssh'ed into a Linux server), the odd behaviors I
> have experienced will be reproduced. Based on my own experience, I
> believe some inappropriate behavior will probably be noticeable in 2-5
> minutes, but I mention half an hour as adding slop.

I am comfortable enough with vi(m) and I tried out some non-trivial text
manipulation but couldn't notice anything wrong.  If you are actually
using Emacs 21, then it might be that in the ~20 years since its release
the bugs causing the issues you have been having have been resolved?  I
would also recommend trying out the ELPA package "eat" as an alternative
terminal emulator, but that would also require a newer version of Emacs.

>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Unworthy Br. Christos Hayward (really, thou / thee / thy / thine), novice at St. Demetrios Orthodox Monastery.
>
> Most recent posting: A Note to Single Evangelical Women
>
> Websites:
>
> C.J.S. Hayward: Official Author Site (Bookshelf)Official Substack
> Orthodox Church Fathers
> The Powered Access Bible
> Scrolls of Wonder
>
>
>
>

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic on peregrine

bug#70562: Trouble using Vim under Emacs's ansi-term

[Eli Zaretskii]

Ping!  Christos, could you please answer Philip's questions, and
perhaps try a newer version of Emacs?

> Cc: 70562@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>
> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 06:59:53 +0000
> 
> "C.J.S. Hayward" <cjsh@cjshayward.com> writes:
> 
> > I have Emacs 21 as installed from Linux Mint Victoria.
> 
> Do I understand correctly, that you are using Emacs 21, released
> somewhere between 2001 and 2005?
> 
> > I am a long-time Vim user interested in a proportional font terminal,
> > such as is mostly provided by Emacs Evil mode or local or (ssh) remote
> > Vim, but I have experienced consistent issues using vim under Emacs's
> > ansi-term.
> >
> > I haven't been able to pin down that if you edit a particular document
> > and attempt a particular set of keystrokes, issues arise. However, I
> > have had issues with Emacs thinking it is one line higher or lower
> > than it really is, so that commenting out a line of JavaScript
> > comments out a different line from what the user intended (and what it
> > appears), and random freezing.
> >
> > I believe that if you have a volunteer who is comfortable using Vim,
> > and ask said user to use Vim under Emacs's ansi-term for half an hour
> > (I have not been able to discern different behavior between local Vim
> > processes and those ssh'ed into a Linux server), the odd behaviors I
> > have experienced will be reproduced. Based on my own experience, I
> > believe some inappropriate behavior will probably be noticeable in 2-5
> > minutes, but I mention half an hour as adding slop.
> 
> I am comfortable enough with vi(m) and I tried out some non-trivial text
> manipulation but couldn't notice anything wrong.  If you are actually
> using Emacs 21, then it might be that in the ~20 years since its release
> the bugs causing the issues you have been having have been resolved?  I
> would also recommend trying out the ELPA package "eat" as an alternative
> terminal emulator, but that would also require a newer version of Emacs.
> 
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Unworthy Br. Christos Hayward (really, thou / thee / thy / thine), novice at St. Demetrios Orthodox Monastery.
> >
> > Most recent posting: A Note to Single Evangelical Women
> >
> > Websites:
> >
> > C.J.S. Hayward: Official Author Site (Bookshelf)Official Substack
> > Orthodox Church Fathers
> > The Powered Access Bible
> > Scrolls of Wonder
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> -- 
> 	Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
> 
> 
> 
> 

bug#70562: Trouble using Vim under Emacs's ansi-term

[Philip Kaludercic]

Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:

> Ping!  Christos, could you please answer Philip's questions, and
> perhaps try a newer version of Emacs?

Christos responded to my message, but I once again failed to notice that
he didn't CC the mailing list.  Turns out that he was using Emacs 27.1:

--8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
My apologies; I was confusing Emacs with another package that had come up in my searching.

Help -> About Emacs gives,

GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.33, cairo version 1.16.0)
 of 2023-08-16, modified by Debian
--8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---

I recommended trying out eat to see if it is any better.  All in all I
regard the issue as resolved.

>
>> Cc: 70562@debbugs.gnu.org
>> From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>
>> Date: Thu, 25 Apr 2024 06:59:53 +0000
>> 
>> "C.J.S. Hayward" <cjsh@cjshayward.com> writes:
>> 
>> > I have Emacs 21 as installed from Linux Mint Victoria.
>> 
>> Do I understand correctly, that you are using Emacs 21, released
>> somewhere between 2001 and 2005?
>> 
>> > I am a long-time Vim user interested in a proportional font terminal,
>> > such as is mostly provided by Emacs Evil mode or local or (ssh) remote
>> > Vim, but I have experienced consistent issues using vim under Emacs's
>> > ansi-term.
>> >
>> > I haven't been able to pin down that if you edit a particular document
>> > and attempt a particular set of keystrokes, issues arise. However, I
>> > have had issues with Emacs thinking it is one line higher or lower
>> > than it really is, so that commenting out a line of JavaScript
>> > comments out a different line from what the user intended (and what it
>> > appears), and random freezing.
>> >
>> > I believe that if you have a volunteer who is comfortable using Vim,
>> > and ask said user to use Vim under Emacs's ansi-term for half an hour
>> > (I have not been able to discern different behavior between local Vim
>> > processes and those ssh'ed into a Linux server), the odd behaviors I
>> > have experienced will be reproduced. Based on my own experience, I
>> > believe some inappropriate behavior will probably be noticeable in 2-5
>> > minutes, but I mention half an hour as adding slop.
>> 
>> I am comfortable enough with vi(m) and I tried out some non-trivial text
>> manipulation but couldn't notice anything wrong.  If you are actually
>> using Emacs 21, then it might be that in the ~20 years since its release
>> the bugs causing the issues you have been having have been resolved?  I
>> would also recommend trying out the ELPA package "eat" as an alternative
>> terminal emulator, but that would also require a newer version of Emacs.
>> 
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> >
>> >
>> > Unworthy Br. Christos Hayward (really, thou / thee / thy / thine), novice at St. Demetrios Orthodox Monastery.
>> >
>> > Most recent posting: A Note to Single Evangelical Women
>> >
>> > Websites:
>> >
>> > C.J.S. Hayward: Official Author Site (Bookshelf)Official Substack
>> > Orthodox Church Fathers
>> > The Powered Access Bible
>> > Scrolls of Wonder
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>> -- 
>> 	Philip Kaludercic on peregrine
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

-- 
	Philip Kaludercic on peregrine

bug#70562: Trouble using Vim under Emacs's ansi-term

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net>
> Cc: cjsh@cjshayward.com,  70562@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Thu, 09 May 2024 08:04:42 +0000
> 
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> 
> > Ping!  Christos, could you please answer Philip's questions, and
> > perhaps try a newer version of Emacs?
> 
> Christos responded to my message, but I once again failed to notice that
> he didn't CC the mailing list.  Turns out that he was using Emacs 27.1:
> 
> --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8---
> My apologies; I was confusing Emacs with another package that had come up in my searching.
> 
> Help -> About Emacs gives,
> 
> GNU Emacs 27.1 (build 1, x86_64-pc-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.24.33, cairo version 1.16.0)
>  of 2023-08-16, modified by Debian
> --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8---
> 
> I recommended trying out eat to see if it is any better.  All in all I
> regard the issue as resolved.

Thanks, done.