From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Arthur Miller Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs popular again with a video Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 12:43:13 +0200 Message-ID: References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <70bb51fd-447d-928c-4d69-1c9673a44471@online.de> <83h7wh33ur.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="114412"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: rpluim@gmail.com, colinetnathan98@gmail.com, andreas.roehler@online.de, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri May 15 12:43:53 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jZXom-000Tc1-Ol for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=arthur.miller@live.com; helo=EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/15 06:43:15 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Windows NT kernel [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250377 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Arthur Miller >> Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 09:55:16 +0200 >> Cc: Robert Pluim , colinetnathan98@gmail.com, >> andreas.roehler@online.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org >>=20 >> > I would like Emacs to have the features of LibreOffice -- at least for >> > word processing and slides. >> > >> > It would take years to get there, but I hope to see it during my lifet= ime. >> What do you mean with slides? Presentations? You can already do >> slides-like stuff in org-mode, not as advanced as in Impress, but enough >> for many situations. Some presentations are done via pdf-files which you >> can show from Emacs. You could even use images to create a slide-show >> mimicking a presentation. Or what features do you have in mind? > > So maybe what is missing is a manual or a tutorial describing to users > how to create presentations using Org? Could be. There are some tutorials/show-offs on youtube, and some personal blogs, but maybe some more thought and put toghether manual could help. >> For some more advanced graphical features Emacs would need better >> renderer, ability to display (and script) some graphics, layouting etc. > > What is missing for displaying slides? AFAIK, the current Emacs > display engine is perfectly capable of displaying text with images. Slides as images (or pdfs), or even just plain text as some org :slide: does work just fine as currently is in Emacs. I ment more that people like to have some more elemnts, like lines, arrows, and other graphical elements in office applications as well as laying out those elements and text in a bit more advanced way. For example text boxes in office apps. I am not sure how easy it is to layout images and have text wrap around it in Emacs and similar. Maybe latex as a document format could be fine, if Emacs can render final result as a buffer view without going to file export/import and displaying back image or pdf. Same for say html. I think, I am not sure. If Emacs could render render those directly as buffer view while editing it, I think it would be the word processor a l=C3=A1 "office". > Besides, I'm not sure the produced slides should be displayed in Emacs > in the first place, they can be displayed by some image viewer, of > which I'm sure there are quite a few on any given system. > >> Why is that important for Emacs? > > IMO, that's not a valid question to ask about Emacs. We could ask the > same about reading and sending email, displaying calendar and managing > appointments, many Org features, etc. etc. Emacs users want to do > many jobs in Emacs, and editing documents is a job that's actually > closer to the original Emacs purpose than many others. Fair enough, indeed :-). >> I haven't personally opened an "office" app for years, unless I had >> to do something for a customer. I think good text editor like Emacs >> is more then fine for most needs. I think people "need" office apps >> mostly because of marketing not because they really need it, >> especially nowdays when we don't print so much like we did 20 years >> ago or so. I might be biased here though, it is just my reflection. > > Careful: your personal perspective on this stuff is probably heavily > biased by your line of work and your experience. There are people out > there who write documents of various kinds all day every day. Yeah, I know, I am aware of my modest personal needs. It is just a reflection on what I see over and over again: when my friends ask me which office to get, I tell them they good enough with included WordPad that comes with Windows, or to download Libre/Open Office if they need more. Most of them bought anyway MS Office, because it is "the best", even though they will use just like 1% of feature in it.