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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>, "rms@gnu.org" <rms@gnu.org>
Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
Subject: RE: [External] : New key binding syntax
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2021 17:24:39 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <SJ0PR10MB5488D2FED21B42270F006E57F3939@SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CADwFkmnDuG37NtJsgZGx=Zrw4Kh-cT_JfJsYf3y_pii8G1Dysw@mail.gmail.com>

> >   > 7. I'm in favor of letting `kbd' and Help descriptions
> >   > drop the use of angle brackets altogether.
> >
> > I agree that that would be good -- provided no ambiguity results.
> > Does anyone see a concrete problem with this?
> 
> My problem is not technical but social: we are used to seeing M-<return>
> so it might be jarring to suddenly see M-return.  Isn't the latter also
> harder to read?
> 
> PS. Of course, if we cared deeply about readability we would write instead:
> 
>         Alt + Return
> 
> But even me, a radical, hesitate to propose such far-reaching changes.
> But in the abstract I think it would be both desirable and TRT.

(Thanks for considering this.)

It's simple to support both with and without angle
brackets, as I mentioned.

Of course, at least in what I've done, the choice
is made by whoever is coding the use of (calls to)
the function accepting the key-description syntax
(function `naked' in my case; function `kbd' or
`key' or whatever, if this gets done in Emacs itself.

It might additionally be possible and helpful to
let users themselves make such a choice.  Dunno.

Personally, I'd expect movement away from bothering
with angle brackets, as just extra noise.  But for
now, at least, there's no reason not to support use
of both with and without brackets.  Letting users
control which syntax they see (e.g. in *Help*) might
be more trouble than it would be worth.

  reply	other threads:[~2021-11-10 17:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 320+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <20211004081724.6281.11798@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org>
     [not found] ` <20211004081726.AB24621048@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org>
2021-10-04  8:56   ` master 192f935 1/3: Add 'define-keymap' and 'defvar-keymap' Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-04  9:42     ` Adam Porter
2021-10-04 10:13       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-10  7:40         ` Madhu
2021-10-19 18:02         ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-19 18:18           ` Change indentation of keyword lists/arrays Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-20 16:39             ` Juri Linkov
2021-10-20 19:02               ` Tassilo Horn
2021-10-21  3:02               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21  3:59                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-04 13:06   ` master 192f935 1/3: Add 'define-keymap' and 'defvar-keymap' Stefan Monnier
2021-10-04 13:09     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-04 13:14       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-04 13:44         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-04 14:34           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-04 16:17           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-05  6:31             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
     [not found] ` <20211004081727.4F24921048@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org>
2021-10-12 12:47   ` master 859190f 2/3: Convert some keymaps to defvar-keymap Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 13:00     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 13:18       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 13:22         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 14:24           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 20:22             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 20:32               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 21:34                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 23:23                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 23:40                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13  3:18                     ` Moving kbd to subr.el Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 11:10                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 12:31                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 12:42                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 14:26                           ` T.V Raman
2021-10-13 15:01                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 15:03                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 16:01                                 ` T.V Raman
2021-10-13 15:11                               ` T.V Raman
2021-10-13 12:50                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 13:28                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 13:33                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 22:28                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 22:45                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 22:54                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14  7:23                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 11:50                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 11:56                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14 12:06                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 20:28                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 20:55                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 21:04                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 21:13                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15  2:07                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-15 10:28                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15 11:05                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-15 11:10                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-15 11:34                                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-15 12:31                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15 12:39                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15 13:32                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-15 14:04                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-15 14:44                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-15 16:05                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-15 16:31                                                           ` T.V Raman
2021-10-15 11:26                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-16 13:48                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-16 14:33                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-16 15:55                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-17 18:54                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-17 19:32                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-17 19:39                                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-17 19:42                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-17 19:58                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 11:41                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-18 11:52                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 13:01                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-18 13:07                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 12:40                                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-20  6:47                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-20  7:48                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-20 13:18                                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-21  2:52                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21  3:36                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-21  3:39                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21  4:07                                                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-21  4:37                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21  4:58                                                                           ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-20 14:21                                                                 ` T.V Raman
2021-10-21  2:53                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21 14:19                                                                     ` T.V Raman
2021-10-20 18:51                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-21  2:53                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-21 13:40                                                                     ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-22 14:20                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-22 14:57                                                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-22 15:02                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-22 15:06                                                                             ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-22 15:10                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-22 18:16                                                                                 ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-22 18:18                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-23 23:29                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-24  6:10                                                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-26  3:01                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-24 13:24                                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-24 18:10                                                                                         ` Corwin Brust
2021-10-24 18:42                                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-25 16:06                                                                                             ` Corwin Brust
2021-10-25 16:10                                                                                               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-27 14:41                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-28 12:19                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-28 12:25                                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-30  6:53                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-30 12:36                                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-31  2:39                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-31 14:57                                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-02  3:54                                                                                                     ` New key binding syntax Richard Stallman
2021-11-02 11:08                                                                                                       ` John Yates
2021-11-04  2:36                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-04  9:37                                                                                                           ` Robert Pluim
2021-11-04 17:09                                                                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-04 22:46                                                                                                               ` John Yates
2021-11-04 22:48                                                                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-04 22:53                                                                                                                   ` John Yates
2021-11-05  2:25                                                                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-05 12:21                                                                                                                       ` John Yates
2021-11-05 13:45                                                                                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-11-06 13:52                                                                                                                           ` John Yates
2021-11-05  3:57                                                                                                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-05  5:41                                                                                                                 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-06  3:20                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-02 12:10                                                                                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-11-04  2:36                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-02 16:22                                                                                                       ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-04  2:33                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-04  8:53                                                                                                           ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-05  6:08                                                                                                             ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-05  8:56                                                                                                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-05  9:13                                                                                                                 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-05 10:03                                                                                                                   ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-05 11:04                                                                                                                     ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-05 12:02                                                                                                                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-06  3:20                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-05  5:32                                                                                                           ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-07  4:25                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-07  4:48                                                                                                               ` Emanuel Berg via Emacs development discussions.
2021-11-08 23:50                                                                                                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-11-10  4:35                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-10 14:53                                                                                                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-10 17:24                                                                                                             ` Drew Adams [this message]
2021-11-13  4:10                                                                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-13 18:47                                                                                                               ` Drew Adams
2021-11-16  4:05                                                                                                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-16  6:21                                                                                                                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18  3:52                                                                                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-18  5:01                                                                                                                       ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-18 14:10                                                                                                                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18 14:59                                                                                                                           ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-18 15:22                                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-18 15:39                                                                                                                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-18 16:50                                                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-18 15:32                                                                                                                             ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18 16:20                                                                                                                               ` Yuri Khan
2021-11-18 16:53                                                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-18 21:13                                                                                                                                 ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18 11:05                                                                                                                       ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-18 11:31                                                                                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-11-19  4:44                                                                                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-19  6:05                                                                                                                           ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-19  6:53                                                                                                                             ` Po Lu
2021-11-19  7:40                                                                                                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-19 11:33                                                                                                                               ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-19 12:43                                                                                                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-11-19 12:48                                                                                                                                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-16 16:25                                                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2021-11-10 17:24                                                                                                           ` Drew Adams
2021-10-17 19:55                                                     ` Moving kbd to subr.el Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-17 21:20                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18  6:02                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 12:46                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 13:15                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 13:50                                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 15:50                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 16:03                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 13:53                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-18 13:59                                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 14:44                                                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-18 15:34                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-18 15:53                                                                       ` Drew Adams
2021-10-18 15:53                                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 15:58                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18 16:33                                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 20:40                                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-18 22:26                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-19  2:31                                                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-19  2:30                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19  7:02                                                                         ` Juri Linkov
2021-10-19  7:48                                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19 10:46                                                                           ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-19 13:08                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19 14:48                                                                             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-19 17:10                                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 17:51                                                                                 ` Drew Adams
2021-10-19 18:06                                                                                   ` Drew Adams
2021-10-20 22:34                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-20 22:34                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-22  3:29                                                                           ` Po Lu
2021-10-19 12:34                                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-19 13:38                                                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 13:57                                                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 14:07                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 14:13                                                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 14:16                                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 14:25                                                                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 14:31                                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 15:03                                                                                       ` Robert Pluim
2021-10-19 14:56                                                                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-19 14:45                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-19 15:09                                                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 19:07                                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 19:00                                                                                     ` Howard Melman
2021-10-19 20:53                                                                                     ` T.V Raman
2021-10-19 20:59                                                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-19 21:50                                                                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-20 22:37                                                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-21  2:54                                                                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-20  1:54                                                                                         ` T.V Raman
2021-10-19 14:00                                                                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-19 14:03                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19 16:05                                                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19 17:43                                                                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-19 18:54                                                                             ` Juri Linkov
2021-10-25 14:22                                                                             ` Making a key undefined again Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-25 14:30                                                                               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-25 14:37                                                                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-25 17:31                                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-25 17:48                                                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-25 22:49                                                                                 ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-25 22:59                                                                                   ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-25 23:10                                                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-25 23:27                                                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-26 16:11                                                                                     ` Jonas Bernoulli
2021-10-26 19:33                                                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 16:01                                                                 ` Moving kbd to subr.el Juri Linkov
2021-10-18 16:27                                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-19  3:08                                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-18  1:41                                                       ` T.V Raman
2021-10-18 11:40                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14  7:27                         ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 11:33                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 11:53                             ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 12:08                               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 12:24                                 ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 13:10                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 13:55                                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-14 14:05                                       ` dick
2021-10-14 14:15                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-14 14:31                                           ` dick
2021-10-14 14:33                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 14:36                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 12:36                     ` Representing key sequences (was: master 859190f 2/3: Convert some keymaps to defvar-keymap) Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 13:17                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 16:28                         ` Representing key sequences Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 23:48                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 14:12                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 14:40                         ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-13  8:54               ` master 859190f 2/3: Convert some keymaps to defvar-keymap Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 11:15                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 12:25                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 12:59                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 12:55                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 13:05                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 13:34                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 14:28                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 14:30                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-13 14:52                           ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-13 15:32                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 15:45                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 16:07                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 19:01                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 21:53                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-13 22:55                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14  7:29                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14  6:48                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14  7:41                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 12:07                                     ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 12:09                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 12:27                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 12:30                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 12:58                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 13:28                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 13:31                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 13:36                                                 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 13:41                                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 13:42                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 13:53                                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 13:59                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 14:14                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 19:07                                         ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 19:13                                           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 19:32                                             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 20:01                                             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 20:04                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-14 20:17                                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 20:35                                                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 20:43                                                     ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 20:58                                                       ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-14 21:02                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 21:10                                                       ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 21:58                                                         ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-16 17:07                                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 20:59                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-14 21:11                                                       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-14 19:31                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 19:54                                             ` Andreas Schwab
2021-10-14 19:59                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-14 22:22                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13 22:37             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 19:28           ` Juri Linkov
2021-10-12 20:10             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-12 14:22     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 22:36       ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-14  7:25         ` Eli Zaretskii

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