From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#62027: Subject: 29.0.60; Breaking change in forward-sentence/backward-sentence Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2023 17:52:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <874jqxkoey.fsf@runbox.com> <87y1o8c39u.fsf@ledu-giraud.fr> <834jqw7lrn.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttywbl59.fsf@ledu-giraud.fr> <83h6uw5ydn.fsf@gnu.org> <87a60obji1.fsf@ledu-giraud.fr> <83cz5k5viq.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn3s9y7z.fsf@ledu-giraud.fr> <83a60o5pdb.fsf@gnu.org> <87mt4nivo7.fsf@runbox.com> <87jzzrab9w.fsf@ledu-giraud.fr> <83bkl3423v.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1796"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "simenheg@runbox.com" , "62027-done@debbugs.gnu.org" <62027-done@debbugs.gnu.org>, "manuel@ledu-giraud.fr" , "mardani29@yahoo.es" To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Mar 08 18:53:18 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1pZxyX-0000HY-50 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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But OTOH in master, > > > 'forward-sentence' is a now call to 'forward-sentence-function' that > > > could be changed by the user. Maybe should we document > > > 'forward-sentence-default-function'? > > > > Yes, but _both_ should mention the return value. > > And not just "to prevent this from happening again." > > Documenting this helps users use the functions. >=20 > Not when the value is a simple consequence > of the implementation, no. Are you suggesting that to discover that the position is returned users need to check the implementation to see what's returned? There are plenty of movement functions that don't return point, even though it's not obvious that their implementation wouldn't return point. How would you guess that `next-line' doesn't return point, without checking its implementation? It seems to go out of its way to return nil (not point), but it's not obvious (to me) why that is. More typically we return nil when a non-nil value indicates something particular - but not here. Or we do so when we specifically, i.e., for some reason, don't want users to depend on any particular return value. Not to mention that to know whether returning point is "a simple consequence of the implementation" isn't possible for a command implemented in C, unless you happen to have the C source code. > forward-sentence does its job by side effect, > not by the value it returns. If you define "its job" that narrowly, yes. But then why does it return (point)? A (happy) accident/coincidence or design/intended? In any case, even if you define its job as only moving, and not also as returning point, that doesn't prevent it being useful that it returns the position value. It's useful to allow/use code such as this: (act-on-region some-position (forward-sentence N)) rather than (act-on-region some-position (progn (forward-sentence N) (point))) For setq you could define "its job" as just changing variable values. But we return the value. Why do we? Because that's useful. I don't know why Emacs wouldn't want to let users know about the useful return value of a function such as `forward-sentence'. (By "let users know" I mean help commands, not just by providing the source code.) And yes, it wouldn't hurt if _more_ motion functions (including commands) returned point. Some do (e.g. `move-beginning-of-line'). Some don't (e.g. `end-of-line', `forward-char'). Probably most don't. And yes, of course there are motion functions (e.g. `forward-line') that return a value other than point - a value that's otherwise useful. The point isn't that motion functions should always return point. The point is that unless there's a good reason not to return a useful value, it's helpful to return a useful value - and for movement, point can be useful to return.