From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: [External] : forward-sexp Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:08:42 +0000 Message-ID: References: <53741ea9-b3ac-67a6-519f-b8977df30bf9@easy-emacs.de> <0a70992a-8daf-b14b-09a4-d4b89ef29639@easy-emacs.de> <87350pibf2.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87msyvkihg.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21385"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Emanuel Berg , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 13 17:09:23 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qVCiY-0005MX-4h for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 17:09:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVCiA-00065E-Uy; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:08:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVCi7-00064a-8I for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:08:55 -0400 Original-Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qVCi4-00033c-4F for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 11:08:53 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 37DDnKfh029722; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:08:48 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2023-03-30; bh=s/IIGkH6/S6YdhlKS1MkdwI6QOeE2DGmqNAFmfD2mCg=; b=LE8fm5BZzUEruVxIozmNXuf4uJ8AMef5L/s1jpMGVyNfou0fk/rsAWK3yyASqViHQEkA C8ecsBN0A/ZlY+hKOBITlW3HpJZkVwXdjYqkjKxIC0q3KvxadaLtHs+L2DkjdrSES7aT aBicP/PI9aIKRn/6UY+Z3Z8EQOVJsiFnzGYhNTtYCkr6QvrCWh5eTA4TYUD13+f7F10x g/f/PpxAbLvIqndZubcpHPLs/ahkg8VDfWAp8dafyYHyUelpZR9XtZmu12OW+MBILduX LSyPuYCGYPuPDbR4kcK9z1dZhniRKP5Obfxhq5XqWk03HpW1cJmA1UMh4b6Dko6B7Hrp 0w== Original-Received: from phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (phxpaimrmta02.appoci.oracle.com [147.154.114.232]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3se2yfh9mb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:08:48 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.17.1.19/8.17.1.19) with ESMTP id 37DCGp8x027528; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:08:47 GMT Original-Received: from nam12-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12lp2172.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.59.172]) by phxpaimrmta02.imrmtpd1.prodappphxaev1.oraclevcn.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3sey1q2mju-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:08:47 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=LOzr49x0iSYQ0gmYoMXo9jNoE1m980tSNws6VFkZq1Jo1VFYJDo+ZTu86RvU4NYwoOGxumZpdd/Ce46KV/4LKtY63fxy1aXGjwbMS+/o2uBVPmw8zSgbKG0pLBBlSb1aX/9TDEXiIvVg0Rgp4CkjKeApW7vIYVM9SneEYS14hwTN0M9bV50DKWp8/1aMQ6MZUhZGiivReAsbrwqEMwWM/gjBLs+mGwIdhi3lVYmzX8umkcqYA783nWPEtsuAZFuOmsv3Tmwuk4ALcK1IQk79IfHQSCHbHlerFbMza3poakK9bq+0k3x3oYqLgQ7uoUwPyGCl2TtdbEwoGWmToLMCpg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=s/IIGkH6/S6YdhlKS1MkdwI6QOeE2DGmqNAFmfD2mCg=; b=Bjd1NfYkCnh9tgqoG5XsiVO3InxYO6aykT9klfpM5bqXjkSkgWnE61vSjhfuCnQrbozrTS/xUnRSTPXrxBpsTojDv2+pUt9Q45nFNrlV9P4A1RwfyN6WgzDgzXt07mmkRXF1Uq8hkZTAipgU0RwyEWd2KO4vOqL5OJmzUp8adGR96meg0ycaJkG+qlBeYlA8CeEEbIM/PZ67fKlBoVyd7ti+6PyTy4L4LZS0KHokqBx+tFOFhYAoAmaxHi2u6v6MTgobkRiTiiOnPNHah1njIyRXnjrqTZszLO3N0Zkhd1tUEybAxpo/gj/HbmRQ3aB0+aAc2iqKsR6z23e5+Mihzw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=s/IIGkH6/S6YdhlKS1MkdwI6QOeE2DGmqNAFmfD2mCg=; b=MmRabqfwJlI1+W3JmKxQ/gn8IhN2rOA0NEO0sbExPB0RldDdNqII+K5IkACkjRPCtKgmk93Z8pBGOE6gQH/NsrQmwzuLH4vEJ+zZC4Xe26fVfnpt7gIVs9ucUYqZVJojqvy7aNABiO0joJk0nv3HaehAUHoW+OYEs8TAHUozVq4= Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by SA1PR10MB6416.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:25b::8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.6678.24; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:08:42 +0000 Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::26ee:5721:d884:4321]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::26ee:5721:d884:4321%4]) with mapi id 15.20.6678.022; Sun, 13 Aug 2023 15:08:42 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : forward-sexp Thread-Index: AQHZzfgLP3jcCSlgrk++4K6mBmSgfA== In-Reply-To: <87msyvkihg.fsf@dataswamp.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5488:EE_|SA1PR10MB6416:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: efcd635f-ec12-417d-9848-08db9c0f2e94 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230028)(396003)(366004)(39860400002)(376002)(346002)(136003)(451199021)(186006)(1800799006)(71200400001)(33656002)(7696005)(9686003)(110136005)(478600001)(55016003)(6506007)(26005)(2906002)(44832011)(316002)(76116006)(5660300002)(8676002)(66556008)(66476007)(8936002)(52536014)(64756008)(66946007)(66446008)(41300700001)(38070700005)(38100700002)(86362001)(83380400001)(122000001); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?qNG6OcWPWzjlOF4WjVnfn+YN/v1f04Y1X59k/N1ZydHQzWw8lG7Hrku9EP/9?= =?us-ascii?Q?cF0Igjkv6uJ1woEMHHYOwnrcCHHkejwa4MXpkn9ctUz4/51mp3AVIxULdIsH?= =?us-ascii?Q?2T/pjDv7Ss6+RsqXXUs/uSFqhJJMs5sK5WNYPfFWsCVal/y+g5ksHxg3+mwD?= =?us-ascii?Q?n+DY8FVtRwSwoGtxaKLhR6W7J8HfX+qVHN6RgV/0/B3fSF5hzbZFn0EMT3fR?= =?us-ascii?Q?XuprXbcqjc6i1te4TWTlbXxrvGcmwaQgwo7clDlqN+lWFrwUaLwAyRYonkPz?= =?us-ascii?Q?Y6ZZfKJLTYmpYcK3JOKSckgsaYwIMSAMRwf1DwuFr/CQBJSvblTEM4vqKA3p?= =?us-ascii?Q?IWk7f462fCY2jb8xG39B4HWc8wPI5TkaRksjxD275mZPMl+p8o9fbpiacfjr?= =?us-ascii?Q?Z2iQd+MRByx4QGYj/8s/Rr7NPYxQOhQJPU3Nj/eQ/75PY63nAVjsBpY+I1Zf?= =?us-ascii?Q?QGm0h5WLnZ2dOtfiWK6AkMIy0uQHXF/+KaZRD/80x/14Xa9qmtVE+hb4oUW1?= =?us-ascii?Q?BQYj0P9kNX0en2X5SeaGVTIjT3KMsOGSi6vlcRFk6hmHu3yTKDAsKLHOO4Am?= =?us-ascii?Q?16ejmEKliuwpMT8HqxUvChiOV/MBcQUxR07ds+muXa+N/bvdljGaXQncV7+K?= =?us-ascii?Q?uQ X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-ExternalHop-MessageData-0: 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 aZdyIBGgodhcWzpYaKaOJ7s6MneWes07kLGu9ufw== X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: efcd635f-ec12-417d-9848-08db9c0f2e94 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Aug 2023 15:08:42.2707 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: fuNmygbWA9Ayo9eyoFlz2T7Qt9eBKJihmj46KZb8BSb6VyhTHncLk9bJAzn3t3V4JyLyp+j3HjRQ+yg/LKzk/A== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA1PR10MB6416 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.957,Hydra:6.0.591,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-08-13_15,2023-08-10_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=841 suspectscore=0 spamscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2306200000 definitions=main-2308130143 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: fbLAJ-S31PZO7J_fRXE4baW0PVfaGTbp X-Proofpoint-GUID: fbLAJ-S31PZO7J_fRXE4baW0PVfaGTbp Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.177.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -37 X-Spam_score: -3.8 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:144799 Archived-At: > >>> But similarly, if you try just ["abc] or ["(abc] then > >>> you'll run into the same group-didn't-end > >>> (no-matching-delimiter) behavior. > >> > >> There should be no incorrect commands, if there are there > >> will be people using them "incorrectly", if you will. > >> But if every command work everywhere none of that can > >> happen, right? > > > > What do you think is incorrect in the examples given? > > When you ask Emacs to go forward in such a way as to take > > into account balanced delimiters such as parens, then if it > > doesn't find a closing delimiter that matches before the end > > of the buffer, it tells you that. Seems like the right > > behavior, to me... >=20 > No, that would be the way to do it, if there is no notion of > symbolic expressions, one would fall back to some other > behavior, preferably something not to far away from both the > name of the function or the usual way it is used in practice, > i.e. what would be thought to be expected to reflect that in > the supposed sexp-less setting ... >=20 > So either one would have a small set of functions that would > work everywhere, but differently depending on the context, > _or_ one would have a huge, always growing set of functions > and every one of those would work in one and only one > context ... Sorry, but I can't grok your reply. I have a feeling it might have nothing to do with what I wrote, but that might be mistaken. In any case, I don't follow it; sorry.