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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:284332 Archived-At: > >> 7. Suppose a longtime user doesn't read the NEWS > >> etc., and _does nothing_. What happens then? ... > >> c. If the user then makes some custom* changes > >> and saves them, they're saved to the default > >> `custom-file' location, _not_ to the init file. >=20 > How about ignoring all of that, and asking the user > where to save his customizations when he tries to > save them for the first time? >=20 > That seems like the best solution to me. You don't say _why_ it seems best to you. So...why? ___ I think I already replied to your how-about question, but let me elaborate a bit. If that were to be done, the agreed-on default location (e.g. ~/emacs-custom.el) should be presented explicitly (inserted in minibuffer) for confirming/editing, as opposed to just being available with `M-n' (which many users, especially new ones, aren't even aware of). Even doing that, I'm guessing that more users might go with their init file than would be the case with what I proposed: just default to the default location. I see 3 levels mentioned so far: 1. What we have now: default is init file, and if a user wants a separate `custom-file' she has to know about that possibility and go through the steps to set it up explicitly. This overwhelmingly favors saving to their init file, i.e., no separate `custom-file'. 2. What you propose: essentially no change, except to prompt for where to save at the first customize save. (First for all time, or first for each Emacs session, or what?) 3. Default to the new default (what I proposed). Start saving there. Call it out in doc & NEWS. This favors users changing to a separate `custom-file'. They have to explicitly go to the trouble of customizing that var to their init file (or perhaps to nil), to use their init file. #2 is intermediate between 1 & 3. My preference is for #3: we just bite the bullet and nudge users helpfully toward using a separate file. My reason: #3 is most likely to achieve the desired outcome. Only users who really want to not have Customize use a separate file will do so. And those users are more likely to be familiar with Emacs Lisp and know why they really want Customize to tamper with their init file. We should especially want to get away from naive or ignorant users wrt Customize and Elisp getting into trouble because of mixing user editing with Customize editing of the same file. I'm not so worried about those users grumbling here about having to explicitly set `custom-file' to their init file (or to nil), to keep Customize writing to their init file. In fact, I'm not worried about them at all.