From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: [External] : Re: Running emacs without any customisation Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2022 15:57:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87y1tmmmiv.fsf@web.de> <87sfjumm07.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22418"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Michael Heerdegen , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 11 17:59:56 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oiHfd-0005eZ-VV for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:139817 Archived-At: > It is an error in a package if loading the package has side effects other > than defining functions and variables, recursively loading other stuff, > and these things, but not all stuff out there respects that rule. FWIW, I disagree that "it is an error". It may be poor form, unfriendly, or impolite, but it's not an error. And yes, it's a "rule" (guideline), and a useful one. But it need not always be poor form, unfriendly, or impolite, provided users are sufficiently informed clearly what loading the library does, that is, just what side effects it performs. In general, yes, it's _not_ user-friendly etc. In particular, however, it could be. It's analogous to turning on a minor mode (though not the same): If you know what loading some package does, and you load it, then you are, in effect, turning on a "mode". It's a user _choice_ to load a library. One big disadvantage, however is that you might not have read the doc explaining what loading does. Another big disadvantage is that `unload-feature' and `-unload-function' might not (likely will not) truly reverse everything that loading did. To be clear, I'm not arguing in favor of side effects while loading a library. I'm just disagreeing that that's an error, or that it's always necessarily a big bad thing. Your init file is a "library". You load it. It performs side effects. It's your choice to load it (versus `emacs -Q'). Of course, you're likely the only user of your init file, so at worst you shoot only yourself in the foot. There's a fuzzy gradation from such a Lisp file and a "library" or "package". (That's Lisp and free software.)