From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: [External] : Re: fido-vertical bindings Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 15:41:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20210817000745.cpnevwj7anmarue2.ref@Ergus> <20210817000745.cpnevwj7anmarue2@Ergus> <87czqcw9x6.fsf@gmail.com> <20210818122558.cqhspwxrk3fmix4r@Ergus> <20210820022125.wfq6rluuxe5afofu@Ergus> <87zgtcqw32.fsf@gmail.com> <20210820114640.uee6me5pk3ydopek@Ergus> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="14775"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "emacs-devel@gnu.org" To: Ergus , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_T=E1vora?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 20 17:42:45 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mH6fL-0003Yr-3m for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_BL=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_L3=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:272727 Archived-At: > icomplete-separator is overridden by all the vertical modes... > so there is a problem unrespecting the user customs any way. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ FWIW (OT) - I disagree with this black-&-white Emacs guideline, at least if interpreted in a black-&-white, all-or-nothing way. The idea that code should not override (e.g. bind) a user option is a sane one, as a general heuristic. A user preference needs to be respected. On the other hand, it's not (should not be) the case that no command should ever bind an option. Use of a command is itself optional. If the purpose of the command requires binding an option, AND if the doc for that command makes clear what happens (e.g. the user's option value doesn't apply during invocation of the command, but instead the behavior is XYZ), then such binding can be appropriate. It's about using common sense, keeping the user front and center. It's about communicating what the command does clearly. Then users can choose and have their choices respected. User choice is not only what option value to set. It can also be whether to use a command that uses a different value of the option. ___ [Let's not forget that Customize itself offers commands that let users change option values. The purpose of such commands involves possibly changing the value. Interpreting the heuristic blindly would mean there couldn't be any commands that let you set/change an option value. And yes, a library can define such commands just as much as vanilla Emacs can do so.] ___ I'm not saying anything about Fido behavior here; just a general opinion. I dislike statements that a command binding or ignoring an option value is necessarily misguided or disrespectful of users. Everything depends on what the command is designed to do, AND whether its purpose is clearly doc'd for users so they can choose without ignorance of the behavior wrt the option.