From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#67003: 26.3; (elisp) Basic Char Syntax: Show octal and Unicode names as well, for chars Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2023 15:54:59 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83wmurz3hf.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38535"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "67003@debbugs.gnu.org" <67003@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Nov 09 16:55:43 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1r17Nf-0009qz-Fj for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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State that the digits shown (so far) are decimal. >=20 > The very first sentence there says: >=20 > Since characters are really integers, the printed > representation of a character is a decimal number. >=20 > And all the rest of the subsection shows those printed representations. Maybe - if one interprets the rightwards double arrow as showing the "printed representation" and not just a result of evaluation. But OK. > > 2. But show also the octal digits. > Show where and how? And why? Where we show the ?\ char representation, its decimal equivalent (=1B$B"M=1B(B), char name/description (in a comment), and key description (in the comment). IOW, where we specify these chars that have their own, dedicated escape sequences. Why? Because in `General Escape Syntax' we say that you can use octal char codes. Why not show the octal values for these chars here? Why not show the hex values also, as that's what `insert-char' accepts? Octal (by default) for `C-q', hex for `C-x 8 RET'. To insert a char that has its own escape syntax you pretty much need to know its Unicode name or octal or hex code. Neither `C-q' nor `C-x 8 RET' lets you give it `?\v' etc. as input. `Basic Char Syntax' could also usefully say something about where you can use escape sequences - and that's _not_ to interactively insert such a char. This isn't clear at all from this topic, which intends to tell you about basic char syntax. The topic tells you about a basic syntax for _reading_ chars in buffer text, but not for inserting them. > > 3. Show also other names, such as Unicode/ISO names. > > E.g., say that "vertical tab" is the char that has the ISO name > > (VT). (And still mention that it's C-k.) >=20 > The next subsection, "General Escape Syntax", > includes this information. Not for these specific chars that have dedicated escape syntaxes, it doesn't. They're specified only in `Basic Char Syntax'. > > IOW, give a little more info, esp. commonly > > encountered or "official" names for such chars. >=20 > I think we already do, but you need to consider the entire section, > not just its single subsection, which correctly starts with the > basics, before we proceed with more advanced stuff. I don't see that it would be bad to let users know, here, that what we call "vertical tab" here is also called "line tabulation". Try inserting that char using `insert-char' without knowing its Unicode/ISO name or its hex value - good luck. This is the place where we specify the chars that have their own escape sequences. I think it would help to describe them more fully here - at least give their names, and maybe the octal and hex codes. Such info is not "advanced stuff". It's better info about these chars. This node goes into other stuff that really is "more advanced stuff" - the complex last paragraph, for instance. Wrt the chars that have their own, dedicated escape syntax, IF this is the place to specify them THEN it should also be the place to specify them better. IMHO.