From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16528: [External] : bug#16528: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:35 +0000 Message-ID: References: <87k3dqg85g.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfz45ffg.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="26257"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: "16528@debbugs.gnu.org" <16528@debbugs.gnu.org>, Roland Winkler To: Lars Ingebrigtsen , Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Aug 20 18:39:18 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mH7Y5-0006bB-2t for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 18:39:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35470 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mH7Y2-0006SQ-7x for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:39:14 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35874) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mH7Xq-0006PI-6v for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:39:02 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:52129) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mH7Xp-00025j-UT for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:39:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mH7Xp-0000pk-Rs for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:39:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:39:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16528 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 16528-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16528.16294775233179 (code B ref 16528); Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:39:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16528) by debbugs.gnu.org; 20 Aug 2021 16:38:43 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35442 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mH7XW-0000pD-N6 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:38:43 -0400 Original-Received: from mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.177.32]:14404) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1mH7XU-0000p3-GQ for 16528@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 12:38:41 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0246630.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 17KGavwU001693; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:39 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=q0HbRaELjT0HrxOF5qu2z24EkF1Ce8AqzD3hqGaFUJs=; b=ZNsO0z626Q2VLiePlgCw7yfJGdg2ifjYdgQTGUCs2OznshMIi5WbuAfS9u02+b1y5ZK1 mYxvOZ6RmISr8lN7vjL/GRhN36ggUQEuiJ6g9CvpHoqF2u1whC5M1Ua8Jtw3elDH5NSC Qy2zJTohyeNNrs9sUZDGTWYXhmnIEmVJqmyv8Dehb4lnuwgF/HNGWQdL0pZu8ESwMP6T Buo9tStCHCJq4vQcVvsvdmA89caang3ZQ/+U7jrbmmqJDnWg9ujfoQXFRq86vR+LMqnr 2eBLP0TCfEagtN+4JUOOd1Ig0VJdcmy0dJB+h/3OT3NoHhKZWU0QOqsg46znabfXgfG2 ow== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2020-01-29; bh=q0HbRaELjT0HrxOF5qu2z24EkF1Ce8AqzD3hqGaFUJs=; b=bixYJCUA2wwENYm1yGc7VPW3AtovNLdI3/ygWvrOOkMYjp3A4yn/MI/r9UWqUVZiT52e pm3zbqCZJ4bzLbq2fLNfnkLzypLh/HhP5KS83cWrB4EA4NkhufcJ6ZkleavxdPrNXlfn 1eAwuk+M+D1ojQc7TzyTgc0+GQE02WBr0oDjBuZR9piN8Ny5wevHNmhRy9Z8Z6VNTwQ2 PTCE7qdgLRR7jqHHIEPyTPQoQlUb9X2jQm+JIyEzWD9FdyLtXU/1MzPQliN5QMC9vZ5D NgdQTpSZsaoBaOg0I75bKAZg8RlGf0FAcZNvazc3VK1hyPPRfMPD71M438O50ypP9JP+ zw== Original-Received: from userp3030.oracle.com (userp3030.oracle.com [156.151.31.80]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 3ahsxd2ra0-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:38 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 17KGZW1s136654; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:37 GMT Original-Received: from nam12-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12lp2176.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.59.176]) by userp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 3aje12yh0j-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:37 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=fL8Dxs9JzHaSCLHtrjJwN7vpc0ePePaUDrFPrVK2AXh4YVC3yIMwa6NPgC4hjZr6s7jivOEsr1HJomLnuZC6HZdEEcdwRNVk1hFHZc7nFSSqhWB5kswbsl4dJsFdN6WokHaXJMMXa6hdDk/HphgyKzalTbFKYI5TPK3VH3oKizCnyqtFrlARF7EicHN/hM9vKxpwe2n3oTBPMCFf42aYIoIDQIIKn1gKmBLHK3Mr3wREhboFt4Sx/oe9LQQNEl/nD1FNE2uDfKsy152UKOFyhZcGrJ39l/wVtVBByL+sg3HKlONTt1MNTtfbs4E8QgdovWq53sn3TzLxZLjbbEaInw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=q0HbRaELjT0HrxOF5qu2z24EkF1Ce8AqzD3hqGaFUJs=; b=ZSjtn5pVpC6yT8f7XwtgPl63YBe4MFcdzHX9e/PQw907Wt2k5KSoKLtsgh5BGCsgWDNYx2j8j8kMdQ0e6CQ+I4a8/19QUCWAMAe8f5wEuJod34dHNPdeaEf93EZhC/yT0W5ImcCTHTxA2zVkcnFkLAWX9LzqQmSTN1yxLP9+vTvig951xZQopVlrTQ1IUbZ9JtJq/fmqMWPsfwfWqb731GI3SU+X3RFHP7HIdgFotZPUxDnks1mRSZy4hrCFDGgNdLuLn8ga4nvu0vpswIwVTN6edyvq2nJAfRbouhA3B0htA1RwsO5lUGibLjkLM89lobmXaUVxFhIcrhCvd3I8PA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=q0HbRaELjT0HrxOF5qu2z24EkF1Ce8AqzD3hqGaFUJs=; b=paqPZg2uB7mj4VS6Cmml21z63Wn3q2mYe7lz21fIEIhOBzGJMZiZR+NutPmdJ+C8L9HHbXQmjdl8JMCsJAyGcLoWtm9SGDQSEEyP0Y1XXao2O1nc33DJOsrsatfBKmzj5lKAdUd3sWtBfn3Ztqf34In3sUAl2cZSroPNYsUm7AM= Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by SJ0PR10MB5406.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:305::21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4436.19; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:35 +0000 Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a59e:fa26:ffe4:615b]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a59e:fa26:ffe4:615b%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4436.021; Fri, 20 Aug 2021 16:38:35 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#16528: 24.3; too many keybindings in minibuffer-local-completion-map Thread-Index: AQHXldRcKvCOkWP0M0Czo6TtOGFpcKt8ktNA In-Reply-To: <87sfz45ffg.fsf@gnus.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: gnus.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gnus.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f549e649-b631-4574-8e9d-08d963f8f4c2 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR10MB5406: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 30OABjrfWMxYVVzeO+GnJ1jgxJNRejc4nQbdaLAkbVzhScm5rEQ4uyo1rQHokMrcxwJVGOvrQiNzrMDpGjOrG8qJw== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(346002)(136003)(39860400002)(396003)(376002)(366004)(478600001)(8676002)(966005)(2906002)(66556008)(76116006)(66946007)(33656002)(71200400001)(66476007)(26005)(54906003)(186003)(66446008)(8936002)(52536014)(9686003)(83380400001)(5660300002)(38070700005)(38100700002)(122000001)(6506007)(110136005)(7696005)(64756008)(44832011)(316002)(55016002)(86362001)(4326008); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: Pr+k7R9lDxy0a/DsbUpUuYxWXFA6ozYqpGJfbJqOph6U6Ln6Nrl1T7rFdGg8CIjbJSGpqHqCT1/ePwKJoIr154Ufp3m/Vl79fY4AaUCtJ+axlyuG00hX6OhQYHlYA9m8P/X8zR6adlhpVmhjm5uR8AIZPYqiCCoUoNqmDa2jpHLulCw63Ds66r88MykZJkliCe2Yf6PHRYxDfPgxqMVhJqV+2m2Cu0c4wMvRTg7TWnqMMRX1b27SKSTOh/jfll9A3DXITeTyIeVK0tbpa/5uD5J+2GMW1SjYonwMXXZqT2d11J9o5Ey4EyZ/w6m993fb5+xECkP4T3Ov31J25YIO2WlTQYQX3buufX4MmVe/dNFyoYC8pnsQXAbckwq698odNyc6PsCKKgngE8Wl1Z4elqhxFksiz/ZCwxroeKsmr+/vFt62dTJknq9tLDitAAZDiVIVcjN+YUPDEpgYtVaH7r06ivQLl38+9oT5r191o9tsKZWke/twkqQZaTvayGB58MsL/t2WINSpX3tHizUgk8UsgetN9Ip90UXWmlwVKLmlSHQTLGc8Z9BUwT9OqbR5xtoOGxuN/Q2HqfVk8tX0qlccvWpjKpAedLoRGPretE6BY9CedIw+Lqrv2PVzwslNhHIpJ3+MfViZtIyPkp32ZA/0DeamWsjT9S0yKrw8w2maYX4VEoXi0J7/3XSHjA3q/sz6D2oSL6vi1pdYMCpyOqVoQPI0oQMufi6Cbpu4L/inGJc1dJabXshFd1 E2iZ6OJEDefA5xwLHOH81JwjqBEln8FVBVf8DEjWebCE3i62wcNtx9RdRBFers3HbZ+ZPPrhaIW3kt3Qt9UXlq7jR4zAsrA+lS x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f549e649-b631-4574-8e9d-08d963f8f4c2 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Aug 2021 16:38:35.7473 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 40xFLjocjlUJTeBsSkOeyPuaRe17Vs2v0zztv7EsWG9Bl9bZVz+YA9gpu97rYsofEyToBTTcT5uhPCBLtMmOlQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR10MB5406 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6200 definitions=10082 signatures=668682 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2107140000 definitions=main-2108200094 X-Proofpoint-GUID: Vn7IKFDx_j_FYxt4UNHRsdMwSE8ju3ZU X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: Vn7IKFDx_j_FYxt4UNHRsdMwSE8ju3ZU X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:212295 Archived-At: > >> minibuffer-local-completion-map binds SPC to minibuffer-complete-word > >> and ? to minibuffer-completion-help. It should be possible without > >> too much hackery to run completing-read in a less obtrusive mode > >> where these keys simply insert the respective characters. > > > > Indeed, this binding can be annoying. Some people use it heavily (and > > rarely use TAB, IIUC), tho, so removing it is a bit tricky, but it was > > annoying enough for files that file-name completion now uses a special > > map where SPC is not bound to minibuffer-complete-word any more. >=20 > Indeed -- I have >=20 > (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map " " 'self-insert-command) > (define-key minibuffer-local-completion-map "?" 'self-insert-command) >=20 > in my ~/.emacs. >=20 > But I don't think we can change the defaults here (it would drive (some) > people crazy), Who? Why? How consequential? What about others? How about one good argument why `?', `SPC', and `C-j' shouldn't be self-inserting in the minibuffer, in general? If you were designing Emacs today, would you make the same argument? > so we'd be talking about adding a user option. But I can > totally see some people wanting to only make space be self-inserting, or > just the question mark, and in that case, just doing the `define-key' > things is better for users, I think? That's why we have the minibuffer keymaps, as you showed above. Again, what does "some people" mean - just whom do you see bothered by such a change in default bindings? "doing the `define-key' things" should be necessary for only a minority of users. The default behavior should be what's most sensible in general, and it should be based on what minibuffer completion might do in general. Any particular command can bind minibuffer keys as appropriate - nothing prevents some command from giving SPC, `?', or `C-j' a particular behavior. But in general? Default bindings for these? They should be self-inserting, other things being equal. Minibuffer completion is "nowadays" as general as can be. Completion candidates that contain SPC chars, newline chars, and question marks are no longer rare. When I started trying to make more use of completion back in 2005, minibuffer completion was pretty much limited to file names, commands (`M-x'), and buffer names. And yes, such chars were relatively uncommon in completion candidates (though SPC was common in MS Windows file names). It took a long time, but we finally got `SPC' to be self-inserting for file-name completion. It's high time for Emacs to catch up with the many uses of completion today. This is not your grandmother's minibuffer anymore. > So I've just added that to the user manual, and I'm closing this bug > report. Too bad. ___ There are no doubt tickets and emacs-devel discussions about this older than these (i.e., before 2005), but I didn't find them in a quick search. https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D9972#34 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D11182#25 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D16528#14 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D25441#21 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D36745#8 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D36745#23 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D44611#27 https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=3D47150 --- https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2005-08/msg00577.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2009-11/msg01045.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2014-04/msg00246.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2014-11/msg01521.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-03/msg00250.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-11/msg00668.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-11/msg00848.html