From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: RE: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2022 21:26:37 +0000 Message-ID: References: <86r13hubaw.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <86letphfke.fsf_-_@gnu.org> <87bkuljsvz.fsf@yahoo.com> <86fsjvlrjo.fsf@gnu.org> <874k0bkco7.fsf@dataswamp.org> <87letnhhj3.fsf@gnu.org> <878rpn876c.fsf@gnu.org> <87letka7pr.fsf@dataswamp.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38318"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: Emanuel Berg , "help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org" Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 25 23:27:33 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o5DJU-0009nM-BY for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 23:27:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:34958 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5DJS-00073O-Ob for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 17:27:30 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50898) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5DIs-00072r-9T for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 17:26:54 -0400 Original-Received: from mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com ([205.220.165.32]:22330) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o5DIn-0008Ja-Ok for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 17:26:54 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (m0246629.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 25PDEZcM011589; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 21:26:41 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=corp-2021-07-09; bh=R+EMMXbst232GqCIoWz7yxj38HfBMtm6C/a2dGkKm78=; b=H4raHLMjm2kOjXQsEzXj3YCJIQvXleg6ZrhsTU6VIrfP3sGdwv2j8lsEdcymCPGzS+5S qXYG8Gkgld2ZPuuqfGiCTvrbwRgvAetgw+SN7PZj/nNpO+zf6xL5o7qAOCG/7bu0RCih pSr857fEAIgF5m/vx3xJ0b7u06DEgC6G03pkCrOX10MHuWZrHg4tEo1tN6qFQDgglyW/ mFs9sVpOobnpbt5sFkvBfWCx/qIoR7r955IYjioRCOzFUhOqjJe7jMvVrRz0BmI/VZ9Q kDxLPBHvtZ7wyRMY9o/9K4LDbWWT7YygAAjcnSvGQTEn93KjDV2jEWPzR0eLqiuo2TpT iA== Original-Received: from iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (iadpaimrmta01.appoci.oracle.com [130.35.100.223]) by mx0b-00069f02.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3gwt89rrm1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jun 2022 21:26:40 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com [127.0.0.1]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 25PLH23M001517; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 21:26:39 GMT Original-Received: from nam10-dm6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10lp2102.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.58.102]) by iadpaimrmta01.imrmtpd1.prodappiadaev1.oraclevcn.com with ESMTP id 3gwrt6c93w-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 25 Jun 2022 21:26:39 +0000 ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=ANnxy78zLaJfnguuaaacREUUJq9CpiBbFJZvIAaDoEleXo8mjdIY236Ot+uCPgmnlaokyA96vE92zDdLNzSwZhzJom19pTE9afmjPq4qSsx0APhB1xnLcHTkYNdIdqFIO3+dCogmFx4gh1SQgfwkMFIAtR+vUMd4Hp36u4E+LIfbFa4oXkAOE8tMTS4kvHxm5rFx0/cb9VlWQof+Hx9xSuThWnUyFlntOM1MxPT+tFtLx4Bafie/45vppmAw9HC7GX3182y4JM6ZIa47X5niF+yyzb25gioHyoe1b7iCWBLMDRElw8myc3XEUztMTQi96yb+SaYYTYTV+iYguBU52g== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=R+EMMXbst232GqCIoWz7yxj38HfBMtm6C/a2dGkKm78=; b=lyh4Su6O3M7hlYSoWwZ4gVBfF/aqwfhzi4TU7c00ABNLbfZ5F2j9yVTwHCrSgPMbASft02UPmH21B/2mikvyz2lFV8G5cR4GGX1I+NJ9jCXycghSubzQ5SmwuLbvRrFWoDXfrH3NnPl+fF/TWciv6fA1xsDWGODazCz7gjfwCsjjnzfuJ8zT3nK9ZoFDRC4gRnGb291Mttd5IKn1Du3CE19plCkqvqgWazOJ2e4Z70rk9pnu0nMp6Nv9zlENS9zgaDNIKhfZ/wTGQpQrDkGu3u9XOqYyM9RA76ZEMD/HEstYO+bf+3nJNgjl7mzuh7NvzP6GAsHiN2/51+glZBHbsg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=oracle.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=oracle.com; dkim=pass header.d=oracle.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.onmicrosoft.com; s=selector2-oracle-onmicrosoft-com; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=R+EMMXbst232GqCIoWz7yxj38HfBMtm6C/a2dGkKm78=; b=nT+dProlOwL7+mox9Yxc1o8zlQL5RmjhuAMYxFrMFpyLLJQ9BP01S4Fs3a5jUQqteYzW063fsBX7d/7sHZDdctaI+25A0ysFOCj+G9NoE9Zp+XN1gtpPckPTfCnzuiatg07Um8rrlDilhTHzwA8POo6JgOZQbY4USH0X5ugZe8w= Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:37e::19) by DS7PR10MB5149.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:5:3a7::13) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.5373.15; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 21:26:37 +0000 Original-Received: from SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::581b:ae2f:16b9:80fb]) by SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::581b:ae2f:16b9:80fb%6]) with mapi id 15.20.5373.018; Sat, 25 Jun 2022 21:26:37 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : Re: completing-read depricated initial-input Thread-Index: AQHYiMX4ZtHUGyj7LECFY1QOd+WQc61gmDDw In-Reply-To: <87letka7pr.fsf@dataswamp.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 19961ed9-0f9f-41e3-9c20-08da56f1630b x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DS7PR10MB5149:EE_ x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 0vfkxih0cvQRhNnAZZ5B5semV3dyIsSRSqNQ/TT7FNxSpg= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(13230016)(396003)(346002)(376002)(366004)(136003)(39860400002)(52536014)(8936002)(478600001)(7696005)(6506007)(38100700002)(86362001)(26005)(8676002)(41300700001)(2906002)(33656002)(55016003)(5660300002)(9686003)(38070700005)(122000001)(44832011)(316002)(186003)(71200400001)(76116006)(64756008)(66556008)(66446008)(66946007)(66476007)(110136005); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?us-ascii?Q?t08Y5PeEl/+NXhA1ls/ex9pduTDqm5Negv0l2hQctBAM4IJ9JJnR5PFfPKX2?= =?us-ascii?Q?Z6ePPD0t/BdbJGwrubL43NhNUCHUrfoc3P72+HXhtDFyOexcOka/+8I9IpeP?= =?us-ascii?Q?I7VCqZbKiIIJiFWR0zLMBcwHbbGxubF+YqcXXucfpaiPyt0A6nfD1bbxz0Ci?= =?us-ascii?Q?lisnJbNWV2jZLh7OPdMMtKHn5bgpQj56TdyfZLmrI6ry3Tv0SfrL0fiBd+6M?= =?us-ascii?Q?lQon/aNHjB8suzapCIyyMrtVlelhxXebvixz2c4OrgObpx+T4mMVdUDMsOcZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?KQcZwIzUCO8jeePGlAHZSBE+iLDxxoPmStccVy+p0/Ny2rB7U9fai+092dgi?= =?us-ascii?Q?HmKFiccxvQTcIGt2ww15EVmkNU17JZZgAcancC+VKV9YYeRbP+xVoVDtQQtu?= =?us-ascii?Q?5kiIDnIHcbqVdROwcywfCTHQBTIaAnbaTQriQAMQtl1qEVE4bh7Art4pqAiZ?= =?us-ascii?Q?4yqJgMF2ASvbgAhR5NTW30NzpjTGgIqbKbxJpEZ7VGHfDHFF012OGcEszKsh?= =?us-ascii?Q?wm92LL00bu7Tpi1loEHZMXMndvSgifwRDFCEpTPpTcxgZmYpZ3ck3EMyzLHN?= =?us-ascii?Q?87V84PHFzSBf0BBBaeNO047Ir0FE1hrL+LYtnMWrkrtI58LkZ8WOz5eFTr4s?= =?us-ascii?Q?gg X-OriginatorOrg: oracle.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SJ0PR10MB5488.namprd10.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 19961ed9-0f9f-41e3-9c20-08da56f1630b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 25 Jun 2022 21:26:37.5002 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 4e2c6054-71cb-48f1-bd6c-3a9705aca71b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: KZa8GcU17aAmZM/uzD14ZrwMhuCX34mFK0t2YELb/NOcDgnNOgp6ep/G8ELb9hks2MnDJpsypMExH+paE4A2ng== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DS7PR10MB5149 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.883 definitions=2022-06-25_11:2022-06-24, 2022-06-25 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 mlxlogscore=942 suspectscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206250087 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: aPZsShVcmasWcP2RLnjmeUGA-GE_HJVf X-Proofpoint-GUID: aPZsShVcmasWcP2RLnjmeUGA-GE_HJVf Received-SPF: pass client-ip=205.220.165.32; envelope-from=drew.adams@oracle.com; helo=mx0a-00069f02.pphosted.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:138095 Archived-At: > what is INITIAL-INPUT? We have only heard of one > use case (completion) and it isn't good enough. The use case you're (apparently) thinking of has nothing per se to do with completion. Witness the fact that an INITIAL-INPUT arg (UN-deprecated) is allowed for some read functions - from specific such as `read-string' to general such as `read-from-minibuffer' - that don't use completion at all. It's not only about completion. And it's not only about inserting a _prefix_ of text you might want to enter. Putting _anything_ in the minibuffer automatically, whether it comes from an INITIAL-INPUT arg, or a DEFAULT arg, or a global variable, or ... aims to provide you text for editing (not just completing). That's all. Can that be handy? Depends on context and user preference. Whether that provides for one use case or a hundred depends on the context and on how you look at it. It's a particular _behavior_. How or whether one makes use of it is quite another thing - just as for every behavior. What's important are: 1. Having the behavior as a possible one - a tool in the toolkit. 2. Giving users some control over it.