From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#33414: [External] : bug#33414: 27.0.50; inhibit-changing-match-data can be t in syntax-propertize functions, breaking backtrace and looking-at Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2021 19:33:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <83lg5ru88i.fsf@gnu.org> <83k1lbu5xj.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1eylsea.fsf@gnus.org> <22C40A08-9611-4925-B840-8F3795175B0F@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5898"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Pip Cet , "33414@debbugs.gnu.org" <33414@debbugs.gnu.org> To: Philipp , Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 04 21:34:13 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mMbQb-0001N0-9F for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sat, 4 Sep 2021 19:33:49 +0000 Thread-Topic: [External] : bug#33414: 27.0.50; inhibit-changing-match-data can be t in syntax-propertize functions, breaking backtrace and looking-at Thread-Index: AQHXobxK7Bq9oGUICUmj/QQTRr6uhquUP7Ug In-Reply-To: <22C40A08-9611-4925-B840-8F3795175B0F@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=oracle.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 93dfa5f2-5787-4447-cd6e-08d96fdaebd4 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR10MB4387: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:6430; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 gcRgKN9vDZioMineAoPDJlX32RUoztnmf44RsG4mshPEpl9e+ny9fV939j+RT/866embIA5feRTrUxwxYlgpN3c1Q== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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Define "normally". Yes, it presents problems. Lots of things in a language like Lisp present problems. > Effectively, the dynamic variable becomes a hidden parameter to the > function, and robust code has to bind it explicitly do override any > surprising binding up the call stack. Correct. > You normally don't see such a coding style in > other programming languages, You don't see _lots_ of Lisp things in most other programming languages. > and ELisp would be better off without it, too. Even Common Lisp is better off _having_ it. For Elisp that's 1000 times truer. Users of Emacs as an interactive application, an editor (and more) _use Lisp_, including to customize out-of-the-box behavior. Elisp's designer - and Emacs's designer - pointed out the reasons why dynamic binding is important for Emacs Lisp, _in particular_. https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html#SEC17 https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/emacs-paper.html#SEC18 Those reasons are as important today as they were when that was written. Elisp invites and encourages user tweaking - with Lisp - the OOTB code. Monkey patching is part of that, in spite of its negative connotation, and in spite of the (quite real) drawbacks. Lisp (even for batch uses) has a ton of things that offer both possibilities and drawbacks. Lisp isn't Haskell. (Even Scheme isn't Haskell.)